Editor-in-chief of The Atlantic and PBS host Jeffrey Goldberg joined former NBC and CBS anchor Katie Couric on her Next Question podcast on Thursday to discuss The Atlantic’s ‘“The Unfinished Revolution,’ a project exploring 250 years of the American experiment.” According to Goldberg, the Trump era proves that America never did settle the question of king-like power.
Couric put the ball on the tee by claiming the timing of the nation’s 250th birthday is interesting given her thoughts on Trump, “Well, I'd love to hear about this intersection of the present with the past, because obviously, Jeff, you acknowledge that the American experiment is under extraordinary pressure at the moment, and I'm curious about the very, you know, strange and fascinating timing of looking at this whole American idea and the American experiment at this moment in history right now that we're witnessing.”
While America may no longer have kings that wear fancy clothes, Goldberg lamented the issue is supposedly still up for debate:
Yeah, well, like I said, it's like, and I'm sure you felt this. There are questions that we thought were settled. That just aren't settled. I mean, there are questions about the durability and effectiveness of the separation of powers that I think is really interesting right now, you know, we—they—the Founders of this country, you know, victorious off the Revolution, were obviously most afraid of tyranny, right? Having just freed themselves from a tyrannical king, they were like, 'How do we present—how do we prevent another king or that or a monarchical view of how we should be run.' How do we prevent that from happening? And so there's separation of powers. There’s an executive branch, a legislative branch, a judicial branch, and those things have worked to check each other's power for 250 years. Obviously there've been crises.
One would hope the party of Woodrow Wilson, Franklin Roosevelt, and never-ending COVID emergencies would have a moment of self-reflection before claiming Congressional Republicans are dishonoring the Founder’s intentions for Congress to check the executive. However, such introspection was not forthcoming from Goldberg, “We had a civil war, of course, where everything broke down. But it's more or less work and now we're in a moment when, oh, Congress, I mean, this is again, this is my view. It's not only my view, but my view, Congress is not fulfilling its constitutional responsibilities to check the power of the executive.”
Not only that, Goldberg insisted, “The judicial branch is operating independently and has been in some ways manipulated by the executive branch.”
Before anyone could ask, “What does ‘manipulated by the executive branch’ even mean?” Goldberg kept rolling:
The executive branch is trying to seize as much power as possible. One of the most interesting questions, and again, we could discuss it at, you know, at length. One of the interesting questions that the executive branch is interested in accruing as much power for itself as possible right now, and the legislative branch, or the people who control the legislative branch, are interested in accruing for the executive branch as much power as possible. It doesn't make any sense. Like this, this system only works. The system that the Founders set up only works if everybody is checking each other's power. And so that's one, that's one subject that we wanted to try to understand.
One imagines that the next time Democrats control the White House and Congress, liberals like Couric and Goldberg will not be demanding Democrats check the president. They will almost certainly be good team players imploring everyone to get in line.
Here is a transcript for the October 9 show:
Next Question with Katie Couric
10/9/2025
KATIE COURIC: Well, I'd love to hear about this intersection of the present with the past, because obviously, Jeff, you acknowledge that the American experiment is under extraordinary pressure at the moment, and I'm curious about the very, you know, strange and fascinating timing of looking at this whole American idea and the American experiment at this moment in history right now that we're witnessing.
JEFFREY GOLDBERG: Yeah, well, like I said, it's like, and I'm sure you felt this. There are questions that we thought were settled. That just aren't settled. I mean, there are questions about the durability and effectiveness of the separation of powers that I think is really interesting right now, you know, we—they—the Founders of this country, you know, victorious off the Revolution, were obviously most afraid of tyranny, right? Having just freed themselves from a tyrannical king, they were like, “How do we present—how do we prevent another king or that or a monarchical view of how we should be run.” How do we prevent that from happening? And so there's separation of powers. There’s an executive branch, a legislative branch, a judicial branch, and those things have worked to check each other's power for 250 years. Obviously there've been crises.
We had a civil war, of course, where everything broke down. But it's more or less work and now we're in a moment when, oh, Congress, I mean, this is again, this is my view. It's not only my view, but my view, Congress is not fulfilling its constitutional responsibilities to check the power of the executive.
The judicial branch is operating independently and has been in some ways manipulated by the executive branch. The executive branch is trying to seize as much power as possible. One of the most interesting questions, and again, we could discuss it at, you know, at length. One of the interesting questions that the executive branch is interested in accruing as much power for itself as possible right now, and the legislative branch, or the people who control the legislative branch, are interested in accruing for the executive branch as much power as possible. It doesn't make any sense. Like this, this system only works. The system that the Founders set up only works if everybody is checking each other's power. And so that's one, that's one subject that we wanted to try to understand.
