As the presidential campaign in Mexico heats up, Univision anchor Jorge Ramos sat down with Margarita Zavala, former First Lady of Mexico and current independent candidate, for an interview on his network Sunday show, Al Punto. Several exchanges from the interview suggest that Ramos is going futher down the path blazed by his obnoxious 2015 press-conference heckling of Donald Trump than anyone might have imagined.
The videos below will show significant portions of a spectacularly contentious segment on gay marriage. Zavala clearly expresses the view that although she believes that marriage - one of the sacraments of her Catholic faith - is between one man and one woman, she respects the rule of law and supports a legal framework that would allow same-sex couples to marry.
But this isn't enough for Ramos, who proceeds to reject Zavala's tolerance, berate her over her views, and goes on to suggest that her faith-based stand is disqualifying. In other words Ramos, the strident anti-Catholic, attempts to impose a religious test on Zavala.
Not only does he fail miserably to live up to his shtick about standing up to bigots, Ramos actually shows himself to be bigoted and intolerant against persons who might hold a view that is based on the free exercise of individual faith. It is telling, but not at all surprising that Univision didn't air the first video on Al Punto. After all, this is a network that broadcasts Easter homilies from St. Peter's basilica and practically goes wall-to-wall with papal visits to Mexico.
The second video below, however, was totally fine for broadcast - with Ramos flippantly telling Zavala, "It's 2018, Margarita." Again, is this now part of his oppositional gimmick or is it OK to condescend to women who hold opposing views? Just asking questions here. In order to view the full transcripts, click "Expand".
JORGE RAMOS, UNIVISION ANCHOR: Are you a feminist?
MARGARITA ZAVALA, CANDIDATE (I), PRESIDENCY OF MEXICO: I have said that I am a feminist, because I defend...because, also, first: I am aware of the enormous discrimination against women. I've done a lot of work in regard to the rights..women's rights. I can tell each...to women...I know,,,what you feel. I know what it is...to make your own way. I know what it is to make your own way every day.
RAMOS: So you're saying that you support women and defend women.
RAMOS: That you seek equity. So it would seem alright to you for two women to get married.
ZAVALA: Well. With regard to that, I have to say, it's very important to me and I've had no problem saying it...I'm...I'm Catholic and I have Christian values of which I am very proud, and marriage for me is between a man and a woman.
ZAVALA: But I also... (CROSSTALK)
RAMOS: So if two women want to get married... Don't they have the same right to do so?
ZAVALA: Excuse me...of course...I'm an attorney, I know how to respect...I respect the laws, the institutions, but I'm also among those who think that another legal framework can be found.
RAMOS: Is it a religious thing, or...
ZAVALA: I have these types of values but I respect...
RAMOS: So do you believe that a marriage is only between a man and a woman?
ZAVALA: I re...I'm also an attorney, and I respect what the laws say, and it is Congress who decides...(CROSSTALK)
RAMOS: But this isn't about respect, it's about what you believe - in other words...
ZAVALA: Hold on a sec...
RAMOS: ...whether Mexico is going to have a president that does not believe that their women should marry each other.
ZAVALA: I believe that women should be happy, likewise the men, living with whosoever they choose...
RAMOS: But notice that you don't want to answer that.
ZAVALA: ...and be able to enter into a joint venture... No, I...
RAMOS: But that is prejudice.
ZAVALA: No...for me, it's very...no, no, no...
RAMOS: Of course it is, it's prejudice- it's prejudice against gays.
ZAVALA: It's a concept, Jorge. That's not true. It's a concept...hold on, let me just...
RAMOS: It's prejudice to not want to give the same rights to gays.
ZAVALA: No...let me finish.
RAMOS: I know many gays.
ZAVALA: Me too.
RAMOS: There are many gays in my family.
ZAVALA: In mine, too.
RAMOS: (Based on) what you're saying, you are discriminating against them.
ZAVALA: No, not exactly...
RAMOS: You're telling them that they don't have the same rights!
ZAVALA: Jorge, just let me finish. That is... I can have a view on marriage based on the values I have, and which I'm proud of. But I am also an attorney, and respect the law. Now, the issue of discrimination goes far beyond whether we agree on a legal framework...
RAMOS: You are discriminating against gays. You are discriminating against gays.
ZAVALA: This is...this is not in regard to a legal framework. This is about the enormous discrimination that does exist. It's about when they go into a hospital and they're not allowed in nor given care because of a difference in sexual preference. It's the discrimination from them going into a school and not being accepted because of that.
RAMOS: Do you believe that gays are born...born gay?
ZAVALA: That's an issue that...
RAMOS: It's...do you believe...
ZAVALA: That's an issue that, certainly...In other words...yes, based on what medicine has said. But let me tell you something.
ZAVALA: In real..No. .Hold on, let me tell you something. There are certain...
RAMOS: You're not suggesting that they can change?
ZAVALA: No. No. there are certain... No, of course not. There are certain concepts with which I agree, and that doesn't mean that I'm not going to respect the laws.
MARGARITA ZAVALA: I'm an attorney, I know how to respect... I respect the laws, the institutions, but I'm also among those who think that another legal framework can be found. At any rate...
JORGE RAMOS: But why not the same rights? Margarita, it's 2018.
ZAVALA: Yes...yes...at any rate, of course I respect the laws, and the most important thing is that women live happily with whomever they want. Of course, and...
RAMOS: But...but you, then, do not agree with two persons of the same sex, if two...you are seeking equity for women and so if two women want to get married, then why not?
ZAVALA: Or two men. That there be in place the legal framework that would allow that, of course. And not just allow, but recognize...
RAMOS: But you, Margarita Zavala, do not agree with that.
ZAVALA: That is, I have a concept, but I absolutely respect the law.