KABOOM! Kavanaugh Attorney Schools Katy Tur on Avenatti Allegations, Presumptions of Guilt

Seeking to push back against the liberal media’s rush to convict Supreme Court Brett Kavanaugh of being a serial, sexually violent criminal, Kavanaugh attorney Beth Wilkinson spent Wednesday on a media tour across broadcast and cable news, but none were as tense as her battle with MSNBC’s Katy Tur. 

As usual, Tur only brought the proverbial knife to a gun fight when it comes to the facts and presumption of innocence with Wilkinson emerging as the real adult.

 

 

Tur started off with an introductory question about whether Kavanaugh is “100 percent confident he's never met Ms. Swetnick.” But when Wilkinson pointed out that “this is a frightening allegation” and somehow went unreported by scores of supposed witnesses for decades, Tur smugly asked: “Are you calling her a liar?”

Wilkinson replied that she’s not but observed how Avenatti has “waved this on some of your programs since last weekend and said he knew about and he never went to the police” even though, if she were him, she would have gone to the police.

The tension began building with this question that Avenatti could have concocted himself (click “expand”):

So Ms. Swetnick, Dr. Ford, and Ms. Ramirez — all the women who have accused your client of misconduct all have one similar thing in common. They all say that he drank to excess. There are other folks out there from Kavanaugh’s high school years and from his college years who say the same thing, that he drank to excess. Your client also admits he did at some times have a few too many beers. If that is the case and if there's a potential out there for him being black out drunk or very drunk, how is he confident of his memories? 

Kavanaugh’s lawyer pointed out that, by Tur’s reckless implication, “almost every high school and college student could be accused of the same thing or have done that, had drinks, had too many drinks” which isn’t “the same as being black out drunk and — and not remembering this.”

Wilkinson wondered how, if this was such a well-known occurrence, “why is it that none of those people have come forward?” 

Tur then showed she doesn’t understand how America operates, assuming that it’s on the accused to demand law enforcement investigate them to prove their innocence. That’s like asking the TSA to give you a pat-down and, last I checked, most people don’t walk into airports wanting that to happen.

Wilkinson shot back that Kavanaugh didn’t know about the claims by Julie Swetnick “until it came out today” even though “Mr. Avenatti has had this information for weeks, months, I don’t know how long he’s had it.”

The fight then escalated to where Wilkinson tore into Tur for her rampant bias against Kavanaugh, leaving Tur incensed (click “expand”):

TUR: Is he now demanding an FBI investigation? 

WILKINSON: He knows he didn't do it. It’s not his job. If the committee wants to demand an investigation, what I don’t understand —

TUR: Why doesn't he want an FBI investigation, though, if he knows he’s innocent and there's multiple people who can go on the record or go under oath or be interviewed by the FBI under threat of perjury, why would he not want the FBI to get involved? 

WILKINSON: Thankfully our system doesn't work the way you're suggesting, that the burden gets put on somebody when there’s an accusation. There’s nothing —

TUR: This is a job interview. It's two different things. 

WILKINSON: No, no. It's out here in the public opinion and what you're doing right now is a perfect example. You're claiming because he was drinking, he must have done it and it makes it more likely. This is a public —

TUR: No I asked you — I asked you can he be confident in his memories. Don't put words in my mouth. 

WILKINSON: This is a public forum.

TUR: I asked you if he was confident in his memories That's all I asked. 

In perhaps the single best dismantling of the media’s rush to tar and feather Kavanaugh, Wilkinson noted: 

Yeah, but I heard your last session and you guys were saying oh, there's so much detail. There's no detail in here. There's no place. There's one or two years generally. There's no other people. There's no dates. There's no times. There's no information here other than there are multiple people supposedly involved with years — for years, not just her, by the way.

Later and out of the blue, Tur twice asked Wilkinson (who, we should mention to be transparent, is married to David Gregory) if Kavanaugh “believe[s]” the women who have accused the President of unwanted sexual contact. 

While that was random, Wilkinson’s absolutely puzzled reaction wasn’t. She firmly blew to smithereens the notion that this was relevant to Kavanaugh: “I don't know what that has to do with this. I've never discussed that with him. We're talking about what's happening here and I came today to be on your program to tell you what he believes and what we know. That's it.”

Tur closed by asking if Kavanaugh thinks Dr. Christine Blasey Ford is a liar and, clearly perturbed, Wilkinson stated that “he doesn’t believe anyone is lying or not lying” but instead that “[h]e did not do this” and “never engaged in that kind of behavior.”

To see the relevant transcript from September 26's MSNBC Live with Katy Tur, click “expand.”

MSNBC Live with Katy Tur
September 26, 2018
2:20 p.m. Eastern

KATY TUR: The White House and Senate Republicans are gearing up their defense of Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh after a third woman accused him of sexual misconduct during his time in high school. Allegations Kavanaugh strongly denies. Joining me, attorney for Judge Kavanaugh, Beth Wilkinson. Beth, thank you very much for joining us. 

BETH WILKINSON: Sure. 

TUR: So, these latest round of accusations are extraordinarily serious. Your client has said he doesn't know Miss Swetnick. He calls the allegations “ridiculous” and “from the Twilight Light Zone. I don’t know who this is and this never happened.” Is your client 100 percent confident he's never met Ms. Swetnick? 

WILKINSON: He doesn't know her. He's never met her and we’ve had people calling our office and e-mailing us saying they don't know her. They've never seen her at the parties that they attended with him, but when you think about the allegations, they are alleging that, for years, there were gang rapes going on with multiple men, with multiple women being victims. That is such a frightening allegation. I don't understand how, first, her lawyer, Mr. Avenatti, didn't go immediately to the police and back then why people wouldn't have sate something. We understand why women don't generally report sexual assault and they often don't talk about it for a long time but this a quantum leap different from that. This is a frightening allegation that there were groups of boys with girls over two years involved in drinking, drugs, and gang rape and no one ever went to the police. No one’s gone to the police to this day to report those allegations. It's truly outrageous. 

TUR: Are you calling her a liar? 

WILKINSON: I'm not calling her a liar. I think she has known about this for a while supposedly and so has Mr. Avenatti. He waved this on some of your programs since last weekend and said he knew about and he never went to the police. As an attorney, I know what my obligation is. It's to my client and if I had represented her, it would have been my duty to go to the police immediately and report this. It is — if this is true, it is a horrible thing. 

TUR: So, Ms. Swetnick, Dr. Ford —

WILKINSON: There's nothing that could have stopped Mr. Avenatti from going to the FBI or the police to start an investigation on his own and as far as I can tell from reading, that wasn't done. 

TUR: So Ms. Swetnick, Dr. Ford, and Ms. Ramirez — all the women who have accused your client of misconduct all have one similar thing in common. They all say that he drank to excess. There are other folks out there from Kavanaugh’s high school years and from his college years who say the same thing, that he drank to excess. Your client also admits he did at some times have a few too many beers. If that is the case and if there's a potential out there for him being black out drunk or very drunk, how is he confident of his memories? 

WILKINSON: That isn’t — I mean, first of all, almost every high school and college student could be accused of the same thing or have done that, had drinks, had too many drinks. That's not the same as being black out drunk and — and not remembering this. He knows that he didn't know this woman. She's not saying it's once. She said it's over two this wasn't a one time thing and that's the same with the other two women. All the people who are supposedly there in those instances have said it didn't happen or they don't have any recollection. There's not one person who is saying they were there at the time when it happen yet, in each of the incidents there's groups of people that were identified as present, that's not typical in these allegations. Normally it's one man and one woman and it's very hard to determine. Here, especially in the most recent outrageous allegation, there's scores of people supposedly involved over years. Now, why is it that none of those people have come forward?

TUR: Well, given that there's scores of people over the years, why is your client not demanding an FBI investigation to get to the bottom of this? 

WILKINSON: He didn't know about this until it came out today. Mr. Avenatti has had this information for weeks, months, I don’t know how long he’s had it. 

TUR: Is he now demanding an FBI investigation? 

WILKINSON: He knows he didn't do it. It’s not his job. If the committee wants to demand an investigation, what I don’t understand —

TUR: Why doesn't he want an FBI investigation, though, if he knows he’s innocent and there's multiple people who can go on the record or go under oath or be interviewed by the FBI under threat of perjury, why would he not want the FBI to get involved? 

WILKINSON: Thankfully our system doesn't work the way you're suggesting, that the burden gets put on somebody when there’s an accusation. There’s nothing —

TUR: This is a job interview. It's two different things. 

WILKINSON: No, no. It's out here in the public opinion and what you're doing right now is a perfect example. You're claiming because he was drinking, he must have done it and it makes it more likely. This is a public —

TUR: No I asked you — I asked you can he be confident in his memories. Don't put words in my mouth. 

WILKINSON: This is a public forum.

TUR: I asked you if he was confident in his memories That's all I asked. 

WILKINSON: Yeah, but I heard your last session and you guys were saying oh, there's so much detail. There's no detail in here. There's no place. There's one or two years generally. There's no other people. There's no dates. There's no times. There's no information here other than there are multiple people supposedly involved with years — for years, not just her, by the way. She saw other women being gang raped and it's never been reported. I don't know what the lawyer did and I feel very sorry for her for getting dragged into this and for any other woman getting dragged into it but that doesn't mean that those accusations are true and this is a horrible commentary on our process this is what we're putting people through who want to be in public service and yes, it’s a job and it’s a very important job, but it's also important to treat everybody in the process with dignity and giving them the presumption of innocence, whether you're inside a courtroom or you’re outside. 

TUR: Let me read you something the president said about this morning. “You don't find people like this,” he said. “He's outstanding,” referring to Brett Kavanaugh: “He's a gem. He’s an absolute gem and he's being treated unfairly by the Democrat who are playing a con game. They know what they’re doing. It’s a con. They go into a back room and they walk with each other and they laugh at what they are getting away with.” Does your client believe what the President is alleging that this is a con game by the Democrats? That these women are part of a con by the Democrats and that the Democrats are laughing in a back room about what they are able to pull off? 

WILKINSON: My client knows that he didn't do this. He's not speculating about all those things. What he knows is all of his friends and family and the women who have known him for years all say this isn't like him. Nobody corroborates one of these allegations that they saw this happen or were in the room, even the young lady knows Dr. Blasey and is friendly with her who was supposedly in the same party says she's never met Judge Kavanaugh. So, he's not speculating about the politics. What he's telling you is what he knows. He did not do this. 

TUR: Does your client believe any of the accusers against the President? 

WILKINSON: Does he what? 

TUR: Does he believe any of the women who came out and accused the President of sexual misconduct? 

WILKINSON: I don't know what that has to do with this. I've never discussed that with him. We're talking about what's happening here and I came today to be on your program to tell you what he believes and what we know. That's it. I'm not here to make political arguments and comment on what the President said or didn't say. The point is someone is making these outrageous allegations about him with no detail over multiple years with multiple people and he's — he’s telling you he did none of it. He doesn't know her. I've had people call me and e-mail me saying they know him. They were at the parties. They've never met her. They've never seen her and never heard of any of these allegations. I've got to believe that if this was happening over two years with all these women and all these men, someone else would have heard about it and reported it by now. Not the day before the hearing, like we’re hearing now for the first time, even though Judge Kavanaugh has been a very public for the last few months. I would say for many years, but for at least the last few months, why is that they didn’t come forward until today? He's had an entire hearing, a background investigation, none of these people, including Mr. Avenatti with his client never came forward until the day before the hearing. 

TUR: Does he believe Dr. Ford is lying? 

WILKINSON: He doesn't —he doesn’t — he doesn’t believe anyone is lying or not lying. All he can say is what he knows. He did not do this. He's never engaged in that kind of behavior. He was a normal kid. He played sports. He went to school. He was a good student. He drank beers and sometimes he said things that he regrets and cringes at, like of us. But that’s very different from saying, did you engage in a sexual assault? Absolutely not. He did not do that.

TUR: Beth Wilkinson, attorney for Judge breath — Brett Kavanaugh, excuse me. Thank you very much for joining us. 

WILKINSON: Thank you. 

NBDaily Judiciary Kavanaugh Nomination Conservatives & Republicans Sex Scandals MSNBC MSNBC Live Video Katy Tur Christine Blasey Ford Deborah Ramirez Julie Swetnick Brett Kavanaugh Donald Trump
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