Joining Brian Williams for his second day back anchoring MSNBC’s coverage of Pope Francis’s visit to the United States on Wednesday afternoon, Catholic and Hardball host Chris Matthews blasted Francis’s predecessor Pope Benedict XVI for being “so fragile and removed” and possessing a “weakness” and “coldness” that Francis does not have.
In addition, the disgraced former NBC Nightly News anchor gushed over Matthews’s “patriotism” for the U.S. that’s “matched only by his exuberance” on Catholicism and all things concerning his native state of Pennsylvania and the city of Philadelphia.
The conversation started with Williams simply asking Matthews what he thought of “the Pope’s visit thus far and what are you looking forward to” to which Matthews spoke of the sunny weather on Wednesday in Washington and how he wished Life magazine were still in regular existence.
After fawning over how happy President Obama was to welcome the Pope to the White House, Matthews took his first shot at Benedict XVI:
The other thing that struck me is the physicality of this Pope. Compare him to Benedict XVI. You couldn't imagine touching Benedict XVI. You couldn’t imagine going near him with his Prada slippers. He was so fragile and removed, remote even and this guy, so Italian. I mean, grabbing the crowd. Reminded me of a Father's Knights of Columbus buddies. Just grabbing the crowd, being physical with the people.
Invoking a comment made Tuesday by Meet the Press moderator Chuck Todd, Williams hyped in a sarcastic tone that “if we're not careful this could affect the discourse in this country for upwards of one to two weeks” since it has “become so raw and trashy as of late.”
It was following that comment by Williams that led Matthews to again attack Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI through the context of how his successor was elected (by the College of Cardinals):
Cardinal Wuerl of Washington who you know told me about three months ago that they made a point, the college of cardinals, to find a pastoral pope, someone who was going to be out there, not theologian but someone who was going to go out and touch the people and they got one and I think that's the ability of the church to adapt to what it needs to do. They saw the weakness of Benedict, the coldness of the fellow after John Paul II[.]
Unable to help himself, Matthews also used the occasion to also tout his affection for Baptist and former President Jimmy Carter:
And you know it’s interesting. You’ve worked at the White House, you’ve covered it, how the President refers to the Pope. Jimmy Carter, I really liked the guy – I worked for him as a speech writer, as you know. He wouldn't call him Your Holiness. He called him – he agreed to do it once, but couldn’t do it more than once. He called him in the second person, Pope John Paul II, it was an odd way to talk to someone. Thank you, Pope John Paul II, it was a strange use of the second person. This President called him Your Holy Father from the first instance right through and no problem with being a Protestant, which he is and addressing the Pope.
Near the end of his segment with Williams, Matthews expressed hope that Pope Francis will come to realize how the American people always embrace underdogs (with the case being even more so in Philadelphia): “Certainly get it in Philly, as you know that city as well, the city of Rocky. He will get it. It is the city of the working class underdog in that city.”
The pair then joked about the Pope making stops to eat at a few of Philadelphia’s famous hoagie shops before Williams bid farewell to the Hardball host with this gooey confession of admiration: “Chris Matthews, whose patriotism is matched only by his exuberance especially on this topic.”
The relevant portions of MSNBC’s Pope in America coverage on September 23 can be found below.
MSNBC’s Pope in America
September 23, 2015
3:43 p.m. Eastern
BRIAN WILLIAMS: Chris, what do you make of the Pope's visit thus far and what are you looking forward to?
HARDBALL HOST CHRIS MATTHEWS: Well, for the first moment I saw the White House and the way it was prepared to greet him, I thought this was the day that we wish we still had Life magazine. These are color pictures that were watching here, one after another. It’s a day of beautiful pictures and I also was struck by the enthusiasm and the love that these people, everybody seems to have for this visitor. How can he not like America after this? It's the first time he's come here. He must say, this country’s in love with me and that's hard to reject that. I think that's the powerful message. I thought Michelle Obama can be a mood ring in many ways and she’s a hard sell at times and she actually seemed really happy to see him. The president exuberant, giggling in those scenes and he’s easier to sell, but he seemed really, really happy to be here today. The other thing that struck me is the physicality of this Pope. Compare him to Benedict XVI. You couldn't imagine touching Benedict XVI. You couldn’t imagine going near him with his Prada slippers. He was so fragile and removed, remote even and this guy, so Italian. I mean, grabbing the crowd. Reminded me of a Father's Knights of Columbus buddies. Just grabbing the crowd, being physical with the people. I’ve never seen that from a – it's like a parish priest on a sick call. He’s so physically in touch with people.
(....)
WILLIAMS: Chris, another friend of ours, Chuck Todd, predicted yesterday, he said, you know, if we're not careful this could affect the discourse in this country for upwards of one to two weeks. The discourse that's become so raw and trashy as of late.
MATTHEWS: That is so well said. So well said. You know, I want to go back to the fact that everyone's been exuberant about the change in the church because of the new pope. The 99 percent of catholic who is go to mass every Sunday a lot or church a lot and believe in the sacraments and try to be good people, they’re going to be the ones to through this. The next Pope might not be so tactile, so personal, the Catholic Church isn't based on current popularity. And it's based on – a phrase I used this morning may offend some people but it's too big to fail. It had to make these changes. Cardinal Wuerl of Washington who you know told me about three months ago that they made a point, the college of cardinals, to find a pastoral pope, someone who was going to be out there, not theologian but someone who was going to go out and touch the people and they got one and I think that's the ability of the church to adapt to what it needs to do. They saw the weakness of Benedict, the coldness of the fellow after John Paul II and you know it’s interesting. You’ve worked at the White House, you’ve covered it, how the President refers to the Pope. Jimmy Carter, I really liked the guy – I worked for him as a speech writer, as you know. He wouldn't call him Your Holiness. He called him – he agreed to do it once, but couldn’t do it more than once. He called him in the second person, Pope John Paul II, it was an odd way to talk to someone. Thank you, Pope John Paul II, it was a strange use of the second person. This President called him Your Holy Father from the first instance right through and no problem with being a Protestant, which he is and addressing the pope. He didn't say Your Holiness and did say Holy Father and we've made progress in accepting the Holy See.
(....)
MATTHEWS: Well, as you know, Brian, you and I have been working here, we love this city most of the people in Washington who work here came here to work 'cause they love this city. They love what it means to the world. They know what it means to them as Americans. We never get tired of looking at the Lincoln Memorial when we drive by or looking across the Kennedy Grave when we drive by the Potomac late at night. We always look for that flicker, I always do, I know you do and it’s a city we’re so proud like the San Franciscans are and as long as this Pope this is a beautiful day. I was going over his parade route coming down to, you know, Embassy Row and coming down from across the Vice President's house on Mass Avenue and coming down the White House and the trip up – basically a trip up to Capitol Hill. He has got to love what he sees it is a beautiful little city of sort of humble pretensions, a symbol of the 1850s, early 19th century that it was really built bay a very small group of colonies, 13 of them that said, you know, we’re going to be a big country, a continental power, world power some day, so let's build something appropriate to that and we did, but we also kept the little white house, the Irish guy that built the White House, Hoban, a nice little house compared to the power of the man within it. The Capitol is obviously European but so proud of the replica we made of it and built here in our country. We love this city. I always tell people, come to Washington, you already paid for it and they did. Everything’s free here and so, I – it's a city of museums and Mon automatic and we love it and we hope the Pope gets a taste of it, but he must be amazed at how – we are not a bunch of crazy capitalists or cruel people who don't care about the underdog. This is a country of the underdog and I hope he picks up on that in the few days he is here. Certainly get it in Philly, as you know that city as well, the city of Rocky. He will get it. It is the city of the working class underdog in that city.
WILLIAMS: I hope he stops at Jim's Steaks, 4th and South and orders it the right way. Chris Matthews –
MATTHEWS: That could be trouble, you know, with cheese whiz, he may have do a couple of those places to keep things clear.
WILLIAMS: There's Gino's, a lot of different places, depending on your taste. Chris Matthews, whose patriotism is matched only by his exuberance especially on this topic.
