A hostile interview on CNN’s State of the Union with the Trump Administration’s Border Czar, Tom Homan, ended with host Dana Bash getting roasted for the obvious double standard of coverage in comparison to facilities during the border overrun that occurred during the Biden presidency. Reasonable individuals may conclude, as did Homan, that things were (D)ifferent back then.
Watch the end of the interview, with the Alligator Alley question and Homan's righteous clapback:
Dana Bash tries to push the left's Alligator Alcatraz talking points on Tom Homan and gets COOKED:
— Jorge Bonilla (@BonillaJL) July 13, 2025
"You didn't see them complaining about, under Biden administration, people being held in a Border Patrol parking lot surrounded by a fence in the sweltering heat, not a word. You… pic.twitter.com/135G1yfVKk
DANA BASH: I do want to turn to what is going on in Florida. And that is what the administration, what you call Alligator Alcatraz was visited by Democratic members of Congress yesterday. They were given limited access. And this, of course, was -- is a new detention facility set up by Florida Governor Ron DeSantis. What these congresspeople described was sweltering heat, bug infestations, meager meals. They say they heard detainees crying out for help. The wife of one man detained there said he's not been given access to a lawyer, he's been in detention for about two weeks. Is that acceptable to you? And is that what you're seeing when you go?
TOM HOMAN: I have not been there yet. And I doubt a lot of that's factual. I mean, bottom line is, I -- from the day one -- I have been doing this job since 1984 -- detainees complain about the conditions of detention. And I have said this many times. You can simply go to ICE.gov and look at the detention standards ICE has. They have the highest detention standards in the industry. But these same congressmen that are complaining about Alligator Alcatraz, you didn't see them complaining about, under Biden administration, people being held in a Border Patrol parking lot surrounded by a fence in the sweltering heat, not a word. You didn't hear a word about half-a-million children being trafficked in the country and them not being able to locate 300,000. President Trump, this administration is finding thousands of those children. So they have -- they have a lot of anger under President Trump and how we're doing business, and they ignored four years of open borders, historic migrant death, historic Americans dying from fentanyl, historic numbers of women and children being sex-trafficked, historic number of people on the terrorist watch list coming across the border.
BASH: Sir, are you...
HOMAN: Silence. Silence, because they're complicit because they didn't take the administration on and ask them to secure the border. You can't have strong national security in this country if you don't have border security. We got to know who's coming and what's coming, where's coming. But, instead, they kept silent and they kept feeding the American people we have a secure border, and we did not.
The entire interview transpired in this manner. Bash tried to bait Homan into gotchas on the recent district court ruling barring detentions in certain areas, and on “reasonable suspicion” based on physical appearance. On the former, Homan said the administration would appeal and gave assurance of compliance with court orders. On the latter, Homan gave a smothering clarification that made clear that physical appearance is not the sole criteria for reasonable suspicion, but is rather one of a set of factors that go into consideration.
Having been schooled on law and on the facts, Bash then attempted to make an emotional appeal, leading to an exchange on “compassion” which, in turn, set up a question on the raid against a weed farm in California.
The consistent theme here is Homan pointing out the hypocrisy. The media were nowhere to be seen on the overrun border of four years ago until it was confirmed to be a political liability for the Democrats. And even then, things like the detention of these migrants were often glossed over. Homan is right to point out the (D)ifference in concern over Alligator Alcatraz vis-a-vis holding facilities along the southern border during the Biden years. The same could be said about media coverage, both then and now. If it weren’t for double standards, there’d be none at all.
Click “expand” to view the full transcript of the aforementioned interview as aired on CNN State of the Union on Sunday, July 13th, 2025:
DANA BASH: Here with me now is President Trump's border czar, Tom Homan. Thank you so much for joining me this morning, sir. I do want to start with that ruling. The judge ordered the administration to stop making indiscriminate immigration arrests in the Los Angeles area and denying detainees’ right to legal counsel. She wrote that -- quote -- "Roving patrols without reasonable suspicion violate the Fourth Amendment to the Constitution, and denying access to lawyers violates the Fifth Amendment to the Constitution." Will the administration comply with this order?
TOM HOMAN: Look, we're going to litigate that order, because I think the order's wrong. I mean, she's assuming that the officers don't have reasonable suspicion. They don't need probable cause to briefly detain and question somebody. They just need reasonable suspicion. And that's based on many articulable facts. So, unless she's in the officer's mind, I don't know if she would make that decision that, well, they're not using reasonable suspicion. How does she know that? I mean, every officer has to bring articulable facts to raise reasonable suspicion, and then they can briefly detain.
BASH: Well...
HOMAN: I don't know how she knows that, but I don't think any federal judge can dictate immigration policy. That's a matter for Congress and for the president. And I know the Department of Justice is going to litigate it. So we're going to take it to the appeals court.
BASH: Let's talk about that reasonable suspicion and what it actually means on the ground when it comes to ICE detaining people. You said in an interview this week that reasonable suspicion can be based on -- quote -- "the location, their occupation, their physical appearance, their actions." What about an individual's physical appearance would give immigration agents -- quote -- "reasonable suspicion" that they might be in the U.S. illegally?
HOMAN: Well, first of all, let me be clear. Physical description can't be the sole factor to give you reasonable suspicion. As I said in that interview, it's articulable facts, with an S. So appearance can be just one. For instance, if someone has an MS-13 tattoo on their face, that may be one factor to add to other factors to raise reasonable suspicion. I want to be clear about that again, because my words were taken out of context. Physical description cannot be the sole reason to detain and question somebody. That can't be the sole reason to raise reasonable suspicion. It's a myriad of factors. And I could sit here for the next half-hour and give you all the factors. So, every officer -- every situation is different. But I can tell you this, that every ICE officer goes through Fourth Amendment training every six months, and reminded what their authorities are for arrest, detention, and questioning. So, the officers are very well-trained. So, I look forward to DOJ litigating this judge's decision, because I don't -- I think she is making a decision without knowing what that officer knows when they get out of that vehicle to question somebody.
BASH: So, what that judge, same judge in the case, said is that an individual's race or ethnicity, the language they speak or their accent, their presence at a particular location, like a bus stop or a worksite, or the type of work they do does not qualify as reasonable suspicions.
HOMAN: Well, like I said, it's just -- these are factors that lead to reasonable suspicion. There's a myriad of factors. Every case is different. I'm not going to disagree with everything the judge has said, because a location alone shouldn't have reasonable suspicion. It's a combination of articulable facts that an officer determines before he detains somebody for a short period of time and questions them. So, again, every case is different, different articulable facts from different people in different places.
BASH: Yes, you...
HOMAN: So, I -- and, again, I look forward to litigation. I think we will win this on appeal.
BASH: OK, so, obviously, you're appealing, but, until that happens, the administration will comply with the judge's order?
HOMAN: The administration is never going to go against a judge's order. We will litigate it. We will win it.
BASH: OK.
HOMAN: And then we will get back to doing what we're doing.
BASH: I just want to ask more broadly, and a little bit of a different sort of question here. One thing I have heard over and over anecdotally is that people who are in the United States legally, legally, are scared about getting swept up in all of this because of the color of their skin, because they speak with an accent, because of the location where they might be going. And they're not going out. They don't want to be detained by mistake, have their kids or themselves traumatized. Are you comfortable with that?
HOMAN: There's no -- if they're in the country legally, they got no reason to be afraid. ICE is looking for those in the country illegally. And we're still prioritizing public safety threats and national security threats. That's the priority. But, like I said, we do have collateral arrests in many areas because we're out looking for those public safety threats. But we're going to enforce immigration law too. I mean, it's not OK to be in this country illegally. It's not OK to enter this country illegally. It's a crime. But legal aliens shouldn't and U.S. citizens should not be afraid that they're going to be swept up in a raid. We know who we're looking for. And that's who the agents are out there seeking. And they -- again, they use a lot of information. Most of the operations we conduct our targeted enforcement operations. When we go out, we know exactly who we're looking for, most likely where we will find them. Many times, we have a criminal history and immigration history...
BASH: Yes.
HOMAN: ... when we go out looking for that person.
BASH: You...
HOMAN: So, if you're in the country legally, you shouldn't fear ICE.
BASH: Well...
HOMAN: But what you should fear is the criminal aliens walking the communities in sanctuary cities.
BASH: Well, but you just said that there are -- quote -- "collateral arrests." And that is sparking fear in communities, where people are...
HOMAN: Dana...
BASH: ... again, scared to go out. So, I guess my question is, do you have compassion for those people who are seeing what's going on, hearing you speak, seeing what's happening in their neighborhoods, shouldn't have any concern, but do just because of the reality of what they're seeing?
HOMAN: The bottom line -- no, Dana, the bottom line is, if you want less collateral arrests, then let us in the jail. I mean, we want to arrest a bad guy in the safety and security of a county jail. But sanctuary cities are releasing them into the community, which means we got to go into the community and find him. And when we find that bad person, many, many times, whether it's at a worksite or in a community, they're with other people, other people in the United States illegally. And we're going to let ICE enforce the law, uphold the oath they took. We're not going to be like the last administration, who told ICE, instructed ICE, you can't arrest somebody for simply being here illegally. They got to be convicted of a serious offense. That's not what the law says.
BASH: Yes.
HOMAN: We're enforcing the law. But, look, immigration enforcement -- I'm going to be clear. Immigration enforcement's always been emotional. It's always been controversial. I have been doing this since 1984. I get it. And I understand why people want to come to the greatest nation on Earth. I get it. But we can't send the message to the whole world that it's OK to enter this country illegally, don't worry about it. Even though it's a crime, come and enter illegally. And when you get an order of removal from a judge, you don't have to leave. You can become a fugitive, and we will never look for you. We got to send a message to the whole world- there are consequences of breaking laws. And I think that's why, one of the reasons we have the most secure border in history of this nation today. It's just not because you got boots on the ground on the border, not because we ended catch-and-release. A lot of it is consequences. You're watching what's happening. We're enforcing the immigration law. And I think that consequence has a lot to do with having the most secure border in the history of this nation.
BASH: But let's turn to the raids this week on two cannabis farms in California. ICE says more than 200 undocumented immigrants were detained. The United Farm Workers union says multiple workers were critically injured. One, 57-year-old Jaime Alanis Garcia, died after falling 30 feet from a greenhouse roof while fleeing ICE agents. That's according to his family. What's your reaction to that, somebody losing their life running from ICE?
HOMAN: It's sad. It's unfortunate. He wasn't in ICE custody. And ICE did not have hands on this person. But it is always unfortunate when there's deaths. I mean, no one wants to see people die. And it's -- they were doing the job. They were serving criminal arrest warrants -- I mean, criminal search warrants. And I see the media saying, well, it was an ICE raid. No, they were serving criminal search warrants as part of a criminal investigation involved with child trafficking and child labor. Now, I think it was a total of 11 children that were found on that farm. And now they're being interviewed, forensics interviews, find out, are they victims of trafficking? If so, who is the subject of that trafficking? And let's hold some people accountable. So it's unfortunate when anybody dies.
BASH: I do want to turn to what is going on in Florida. And that is what the administration, what you call Alligator Alcatraz was visited by Democratic members of Congress yesterday. They were given limited access. And this, of course, was -- is a new detention facility set up by Florida Governor Ron DeSantis. What these congresspeople described was sweltering heat, bug infestations, meager meals. They say they heard detainees crying out for help. The wife of one man detained there said he's not been given access to a lawyer, he's been in detention for about two weeks. Is that acceptable to you? And is that what you're seeing when you go?
HOMAN: I have not been there yet. And I doubt a lot of that's factual. I mean, bottom line is, I -- from the day one -- I have been doing this job since 1984 -- detainees complain about the conditions of detention. And I have said this many times. You can simply go to ICE.gov and look at the detention standards ICE has. They have the highest detention standards in the industry. But these same congressmen that are complaining about Alligator Alcatraz, you didn't see them complaining about, under Biden administration, people being held in a Border Patrol parking lot surrounded by a fence in the sweltering heat, not a word. You didn't hear a word about half-a-million children being trafficked in the country and them not being able to locate 300,000. President Trump, this administration is finding thousands of those children. So they have -- they have a lot of anger under President Trump and how we're doing business, and they ignored four years of open borders, historic migrant death, historic Americans dying from fentanyl, historic numbers of women and children being sex-trafficked, historic number of people on the terrorist watch list coming across the border.
BASH: Sir, are you...
HOMAN: Silence. Silence, because they're complicit because they didn't take the administration on and ask them to secure the border. You can't have strong national security in this country if you don't have border security. We got to know who's coming and what's coming, where's coming. But, instead, they kept silent and they kept feeding the American people we have a secure border, and we did not.
BASH: OK. Mr. Homan, I know you have to go to catch a plane. Thank you so much for being here this morning. I appreciate it.
HOMAN: Thanks. Thank you for having me, Dana.
