CNN’s Anderson Cooper sat down with retiring former Speaker Nancy Pelosi on Wednesday to discuss her career and her views of the Trump administration. During some questioning on the latter, Cooper and Pelosi would share a laugh at Pelosi claiming that she called Trump “a vile creature” as a euphemism for something worse.
Cooper wondered, “One of the things you said recently in an interview, you said that President Trump was ‘a vile creature, the worst thing on the face of the Earth.’ Do you think he's different now than he was in his first term in terms of his abilities, his leadership?
Pelosi replied, “By the way, I said that as a euphemism. I could have done much worse.”
As the two started to crack themselves up, Cooper invited Pelosi to do just that, “You could have done worse? You could have said worse? Do you want—are there other adjectives you'd rather use?”
Pelosi passed, “No. I want to talk about my House—the House Democrats and how we're going to win and what's there.”
With that, Cooper returned to the original question, “But just in terms of what you are racing against, I mean, and I know you haven't spoken to him in a long time. Do you think he's a different leader than he was back then in the first term?”
This time, Pelosi obliged, “I think he is, but I think more dangerously. He is surrounded by much worse people than he was before. There was no—some—there was some check on him before, but I don't see that now. I think the people that he has appointed are probably the worst cabinet in history. But apart from that, apart from that, of that they – they’re employees, it's not about what they think. It's about what he thinks, and that's it.”
Seeking to keep the momentum going, Cooper added, “In most administrations, president would take pains to say ‘the Department of Justice is not my Department of Justice, it's the Department of Justice.’ Do you feel like those norms have evaporated?”
Pelosi thought the answer was self-evident, “I think the whole world thinks that, don't you? I mean, because they have. And this is so sad because, again, with liberty and justice for all, pledged to the flag, and that's what our country is about. When you look at the experience that we're going through and you see that due process, forget about it, right? Independent judiciary, that's not what they believe in. And the Justice Department to be an arm of—a political arm of the White House is really not what our founders had in mind in that oath of office that we take the pledge to protect the constitution of the United States.”
Fact-check: Pelosi was still the House Democratic leader when former Attorney General Eric Holder pronounced himself to be President Barack Obama’s “wingman” and was still speaker when the New York Times reported that President Joe Biden was upset with Attorney General Merrick Garland for not prosecuting Donald Trump quicker.
Here is a transcript for the November 19 show:
CNN Anderson Cooper 360
11/19/2025
8:49 PM ET
ANDERSON COOPER: One of the things you said recently in an interview, you said that President Trump was “a vile creature, the worst thing on the face of the Earth.” Do you think he's different now than he was in his first term in terms of his abilities, his leadership?
PELOSI: By the way, I said that as a euphemism. I could have done much worse.
COOPER: You could have done worse? You could have said worse?
PELOSI: Yes. Yeah.
COOPER: Do you want — are there other adjectives you'd rather use?
PELOSI: No. I want to talk about my House — the House Democrats and how we're going to win and what's there.
COOPER: But just in terms of what you are racing against, I mean, and I know you haven't spoken to him in a long time.
PELOSI: No.
COOPER: Do you think he's a different leader than he was back then in the first term?
PELOSI: I think he is, but I think more dangerously. He is surrounded by much worse people than he was before. There was no — some — there was some check on him before, but I don't see that now. I think the people that he has appointed are probably the worst cabinet in history. But apart from that, apart from that, of that they — they’re employees, it's not about what they think. It's about what he thinks, and that's it.
COOPER: In most administrations, president would take pains to say “the Department of Justice is not my Department of Justice, it's the Department of Justice.” Do you feel like those norms have evaporated?
PELOSI: I think the whole world thinks that, don't you? I mean, because they have. And this is so sad because, again, with liberty and justice for all, pledged to the flag, and that's what our country is about. When you look at the experience that we're going through and you see that due process, forget about it, right? Independent judiciary, that's not what they believe in. And the Justice Department to be an arm of — a political arm of the White House is really not what our founders had in mind in that oath of office that we take the pledge to protect the constitution of the United States.
