Former Republican congressman-turned-Democrat-endorsing CNN talking head Adam Kinzinger joined former Today co-host and CBS Evening News anchor Katie Couric on her Next Question podcast to discuss President Donald Trump. During their interview, Kinzinger would lob off Nazi comparisons, bizarre hypotheticals, and long for a version of the pre-Trump good old days that never actually existed.
As he was discussing Kilmar Abrego Garcia's deportation to a Salvadorian prison, Kinzinger suggested he may not be far behind in terms of people whose rights are at risk, “Each step in and of itself is not enough to be outrage to the point of take to the streets in general and general strike, right? But in cumulation they are, and when you say to somebody, ‘We’re not gonna to due process for this bad person,’ Well, next thing it’s okay, ‘we’re not gonna do due process, because we did it for the bad guys, for the people that are here illegally. And then, well, there are enemies of the state, and I get it, they're American citizens, but you know they were Palestinian rallies or whatever. And then next it’s Adam Kinzinger, ‘Well, he's a RINO, and he went against the president.’”
What is about media “conservatives,” Trump, and strikes? Still, Kinzinger moved on to the regularly scheduled Nazi comparison, “I don’t want to make comparisons to Nazi Germany, but in this case it’s a good example, which is, if in 1935 they'd have opened concentration camps, the German public would have rebelled. But if you just boil the frog to the point where you open it in and of itself, you get yourself to a point where it's not outrageous enough.
Later, Kinzinger came up with another example he wished to highlight, “A judge in Wisconsin is arrested, like, some of this stuff is outrageous and we've grown numb to it.”
Couric then asked him to elaborate, “Let’s talk about the arrest of that Wisconsin judge, Hannah Dugan, who was arrested by the FBI on suspicion that she had steered an undocumented immigrant through a side door to evade federal agents. Why is that such an outrage in your view?”
The alleged crime took place in a courtroom by a public official, but Kinzinger made up some fictional scenario about a private citizen at their private residence, “So, it’s two things. First off, I didn’t know it was illegal to, you know, kind of hide somebody that has not been convicted necessarily by the feds, they wanted to deport him. I don’t know all the details, but is this saying that if you know somebody who’s illegal and they’re at your house and the police come, that it's illegal to say they’re not there. That’s kind of chilling, to be honest with you, if it’s like that.”
In any event, the answer is still yes. Regardless, Kinzinger then dreamed up another hypothetical. Instead of the real world example where the guy is an alleged domestic abuser, Kinzinger wondered, “if you have a rape victim, for instance, who’s an illegal immigrant, are they going to go the law enforcement if they know that ICE is camped out right there and ready to deport them.”
As for the judge, Kinzinger claimed in the pre-Trump GOP, conservatives would have trashed the move as an assault on federalism, “And then the other thing is just look, I’ll say this is as and old school former Republican is, like, we actually used to believe in sovereignty of states. We actually used to believe that states had a certain power that the federal government didn't. And so the idea that the feds are going to come in and say we’re going to arrest a duly elected, by the way, not appointed, a duly elected judge in Milwaukee is very chilling.”
That’s ridiculous. Nobody ever made the argument that public officials personally helping illegal immigrants escape ICE was blessed by the Tenth Amendment, but this is a bad habit for Kinzinger. He claims his problem with the GOP is that is has been captured by Trumpism, but then he goes on liberal shows and says things that no conservative would ever say, even before Trump decided to get into politics.
Here is a transcript for the May 1 show:
Next Question with Katie Couric
5/1/2025
15 Minutes, 32 Seconds
ADAM KINZINGER: Each step in and of itself is not enough to be outrage to the point of take to the streets in general and general strike, right? But in cumulation they are, and when you say to somebody, “We’re not gonna to due process for this bad person,” Well, next thing it’s okay, “we’re not gonna do due process, because we did it for the bad guys, for the people that are here illegally. And then, well, there are enemies of the state, and I get it, they're American citizens, but you know they were Palestinian rallies or whatever. And then next it’s Adam Kinzinger, “Well, he's a RINO, and he went against the president.”
And the next thing it's you. That's how these little steps, each of which is not enough to spark massive outrage, but in accumulation is.
As as they said, you know, and again I don't want to make comparisons to Nazi Germany, but in this case it's a good example, which is, if in 1935 they'd have opened concentration camps, the German public would have rebelled. But if you just boil the frog to the point where you open it in and of itself, you get yourself to a point where it's not outrageous enough.
KATIE COURIC: How frightening is this to you?
KINZINGER: Uh? Pretty frightening.
And look, I'm going to steal this from Charlie Sykes, but I think it's well said, he said. “I am not optimistic, but I am hopeful.” And that's how I feel, which is I look back at history, and I know every time we've faced, like, dark moments, we've come though them. I mean, one took a civil war, but we've come through those moments and actually come out stronger. So, I have no reason to believe that the American people have fundamentally—their DNA has changed, that we're not going to come back out of this stronger. Three-and-a-half years seems like forever when you’re on this side of it, but once it’s past, you look back and it goes by in an instant.
So, I do believe that there is still enough, like, and I mean, by the way, we’re 100 days in and already millions of Americans have taken to the streets in almost every organized town and city in this country.
Those are good signs, but our defense of democracy is not automatic. And that's where I'm very concerned, is, you know, we have to step up. A judge in Wisconsin is arrested, like, some of this stuff is outrageous and we've grown numb to it.
COURIC: Let’s talk about the arrest of that Wisconsin judge, Hannah Dugan, who was arrested by the FBI on suspicion that she had steered an undocumented immigrant through a side door to evade federal agents. Why is that such an outrage in your view?
KINZINGER: So, it’s two things. First off, I didn’t know it was illegal to, you know, kind of hide somebody that has not been convicted necessarily by the feds, they wanted to deport him. I don’t know all the details, but is this saying that if you know somebody who’s illegal and they’re at your house and the police come, that it's illegal to say they’re not there.
That's kind of chilling, to be honest with you, if it's like that. But secondarily, simply the fact that ICE in general has always kind of had an unspoken rule, or maybe spoken rule with local jurisdictions, that they won't enforce there because what you want to do is first off, tell anybody that's in the country illegally that they can still use the judicial system. Maybe they're a victim of a crime, right?
And if ICE is instead camped out, you know, if you have a rape victim, for instance, who’s an illegal immigrant, are they going to go to the law enforcement if they know that ICE is camped out right there and ready to deport them.
And then the other thing is just look, I'll say this is an old school former Republican is, like, we actually used to believe in sovereignty of states. We actually used to believe that states had a certain power that the federal government didn't. And so the idea that the feds are going to come in and say we’re going to arrest a duly elected, by the way, not appointed, a duly elected judge in Milwaukee is very chilling.
