On Monday, CNN released an interview between The Lead anchor Jake Tapper and Democratic California Governor Gavin Newsom, with a big focus on the interview coming from Newsom telling Tapper that he would not run for president if former Vice President Kamala Harris ran. But in less-talked-about portions of the fly-fishing interview, Tapper compared Newsom’s early support for gay marriage to the current rise of the Democratic Socialists of America, and also admitted there were mistakes in the COVID-19 pandemic response.
Newsom first claimed he has a “small business mindset” in his governing. He continued he was trying to “take on the establishment a little bit more.”
Tapper interjected and said, “You are the establishment though?” Newsom then responded and talked about his support for gay marriage in 2004, “Yeah, but I'm also - you know I'm scratching the record a lot. I mean, hell, even when I did gay marriage –.”
During the long-form, fly-fishing interview with California Gov. Gavin Newsom, CNN’s Jake Tapper seemed to liken pushback against Newsom when he was a vocal supporter of gay marriage in the 2000s to the rise of DSA candidates in Democratic primaries now.
Tapper began, “People… pic.twitter.com/oF3cXP1LVF— Nick (@nspin310) September 15, 2026
Tapper followed and said, “People thought that you were like ending your career,” before Newsom recalled the backlash he received.
Then, Tapper made his comparison to Newsom’s support for gay marriage to the DSA as Newsom minimized their rise with claims that the DSA, a group that recently commemorated 100 years of Castro rule in Cuba, and claimed they were just a small group:
TAPPER: Ok, but let me ask you a question now that the DSA is serving that role.
NEWSOM: I don't, but I'm not offended by it. That's my point.
TAPPER: But what do you think about –
NEWSOM: Nothing particularly novel or interesting about the DSA. The Green Party was that. Even, remember, Howard Dean's an insurgent. I mean, it's like this is so familiar and everyone's acting like it's some, you know, historic trend, unprecedented - what, 6 people in the DSA, maybe, in Congress if they're successful, a few of them this year. That's it? Come on.
After the DSA comparison, the interview shifted to hindsight over the COVID response in the country, and especially California.
Later in the interview, Tapper mentioned Newsom’s handling of the COVID pandemic along with the French Laundry scandal.
Tapper first said, “There needs to be like a 9/11 commission on COVID, you know, what we did right, what we did wrong.” Newsom responded with a moment of… https://t.co/3utsSbH0bP pic.twitter.com/uiOXZaJqGX— Nick (@nspin310) September 15, 2026
Tapper exclaimed to Newsom, “There needs to be like a 9/11 commission on COVID.” Newsom agreed but then said, “Yeah, and look, everyone's a genius in hindsight, so, you know, coulda woulda.”
Newsom then claimed Florida shut down its beaches during the pandemic before California, before he said his biggest regret was “the schools taking too long” to open.
Later, Tapper recalled Newsom’s French Laundry dining scandal moment and said, “I already gave you shit for French Laundry. That was a long time ago. I wasn't even going to bring up French Laundry, but like, you know.”
In response, Newsom laughed and called it a “boneheaded decision.“ He later said the ensuing recall effort over his COVID changed his politics: “My politics changed after that, back to this sort of incumbency and insurrectionist mindset. You're just not the same after that.”
Furthermore, the discussion turned to the criminal investigation into Newsom and his wife that was launched earlier this year as he proclaimed “I’m still standing” before the discussion shifted to the legal cases against Trump before the 2024 election
Tapper, responding to Newsom’s claims there was a political witch hunt against him, said, “Well, that's what Trump thinks about him.”
Newsom responded and said Trump’s claims that there were witch hunts against him were “true in many respects.” After Tapper brought up the New York Hush Money case, Newsom stated, “I thought some of it, you know, I wasn't watching MS [NOW] every night cheering that stuff on, I was like, this seems to me like this is getting a little too much. “
Tapper then said, “I'm not saying he's innocent, but no, it felt very small.”
The fly-fishing interview revealing than anything, as they both displayed hindsight about topics like COVID and the soft legal cases against Trump.
The transcript is below. Click "expand":
CNN All Access: Out of Office with Gavin Newsom
September 14, 2026
Timestamp: 11:29-14:35
JAKE TAPPER: As a successful businessman, Newsom was appointed to the San Francisco Board of Supervisors in 1997 by then Mayor Willie Brown, who's been a big part of Newsom's political career.
(To Newsom) Now what year did Willie Brown put you on the parking and traffic
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM (D-CA): Mid-nineties, man, mid-nineties.
TAPPER: Mid-nineties?
NEWSOM: Yeah, I was, I was a kid. I think I was 26 or something and then a year later. There I was getting sworn in as the affirmative action candidate. The only straight white male on the San Francisco Board of Supervisors, that's how Willie Brown introduced me as his affirmative action pick. That's only in San Francisco. It's uh - which I remember a headline, I still have the newspaper. It's says “straight white male appointed.” That was the headline.
TAPPER: It's nice when we can achieve.[Laughter]NEWSOM: But yeah, it was '96, so it's been a long damn time, man.
TAPPER: ‘96? So that's, I'm, I'm not great at math, but I think that's 30 years. That's a long time.
NEWSOM: And, you know, it's interesting, and think about that because I'm like ‘Jesus, who needs a, you know, someone's been to the establishment all those years,’ but I - One of the things that I've tried to maintain is that small business mindset, that entrepreneurial mindset in terms of politics, and I've tried, you know, that's why I take risks, why I tend to be ahead on a number of issues even if I'm wrong about those issues. I'm willing to at least iterate and try new things and take on the establishment a little bit more.
TAPPER: You are the establishment though?
NEWSOM: Yeah, but I'm also - you know I'm scratching the record a lot. I mean, hell, even when I did gay marriage –
NEWSOM (Clip from February 2004): We're going to stand on principle here in San Francisco and continue to expand the decency, expand the rights and freedoms and privileges that this great city has always stood for.
TAPPER: People thought that you were like ending your career.
NEWSOM: Those were pit in the stomach days because everything I thought I knew about politics. Do the right thing, you know, here's our advice, do the right thing and be bold, be authentic, and then I do it, and they're like, ‘Who the hell do you think you are,’ and, you know. ‘How dare you? You're a disgrace.’
TAPPER: Ok, but let me ask you a question now that the DSA is serving that role.
NEWSOM: I don't, but I'm not offended by it. That's my point.
TAPPER: But what do you think about –
NEWSOM: Nothing particularly novel or interesting about the DSA. The Green Party was that. Even, remember, Howard Dean's an insurgent. I mean it's like this is so familiar and everyone's acting like it's some, you know, historic trend, unprecedented - what, 6 people in the DSA, maybe, in Congress if they're successful, a few of them this year. That's it. Come on.
To me, it's just more insurgency versus incumbency, desperate desire for change, which is, to me, just been - I mean that's the one constant is people's desire for change, and honestly, I’m - No bullshit. You run a restaurant, you have, every day you're picking up the cues of where your customers going with trends you just have to have that you have to feel it every day. And that's why a lot of these incumbents, they're just, they're running old campaigns, they're saying the old same bullshit and so no wonder they're gonna be taken out.
(...)
Timestamp 23:14-27:16
TAPPER (Voiceover): Newsom ran for governor for many reasons, but the biggest challenge he faced was the COVID epidemic.
(To Newsom) There needs to be like a 9/11 commission on COVID -
NEWSOM: Yeah.
TAPPER: You know, what we did right, what we did wrong.
NEWSOM: Yeah, and look, everyone's a genius in hindsight, so, you know, coulda woulda.
TAPPER: Well, what would you do differently?
NEWSOM: I had a whole chapter just about Purell. We were running around doing price gouging legislation against Purell, and everyone was thinking it was a Purell-based crisis. I mean, Yeah, we -
TAPPER: People were scrubbing their groceries.
NEWSOM: Yeah, I mean, DeSantis was closing down his beaches before we closed ours. I mean, the idea that we closed beaches was insane in hindsight.
Obviously, the schools taking too long. A lot of districts were open, but the big ones weren't. LA refused, and I regret that, obviously.
TAPPER: I remember just like pushing people, experts like when can we open the schools? Why are restaurants open, but schools aren't?
NEWSOM: Yeah, yeah.
TAPPER: And - and this is in a much smaller version what you were, no doubt, going through, which is Teachers were like going online and accusing me of wanting to kill them.
NEWSOM: Everybody was fearful. I remember it was, " You're about to reopen them. And then there's a new wave.
TAPPER: Right.
NEWSOM: All of a sudden there's a new variant that comes out.
TAPPER (Clip from March 21, 2021): You infamously attended that dinner all while you were telling Californians that they should be staying at home. What on earth were you thinking?
TAPPER (To Newsom): I already gave you shit for French Laundry. That was a long time ago.
I wasn't even going to bring up French Laundry, but like, you know.
NEWSOM: [Laughs] Just a boneheaded decision. Just a stupid decision. I was dialing it in. We were exhausted. Friend's birthday. It was a restaurant that was open the night before, it was a restaurant that was open the night after, and it was just against the spirit of the rules that I was promoting. And you know, I went there, I had a mask on when I walked in, walked out, but not when I was eating, and you know, I was sitting there. Which in and of itself is curious, promoting masks on between bites. Come on. But I - there was a bunch of people at the table and more than what I was promoting, and so it was a completely legit condemnation.
TAPPER (From March 16, 2021): You're facing a recall effort in part because of your handling of the pandemic.
NEWSOM: I got recalled. I mean, I almost lost - you know, talk about humility. Come on.
TAPPER: What was the vote?
NEWSOM: We won by a good margin, but you know at the time I didn't know what was gonna happen. It was - there was some public polls that had it within a margin of error.
My politics changed after that, back to this sort of incumbency and insurrectionist mindset. You're just not the same after that.
TAPPER: You're still standing.
NEWSOM: I'm still standing. All the shit they keep throwing, and still standing. And you know, now I got Trump on the criminal stuff, and you know they can't take you out the other way, they'll try to take you out that way.
NEWSOM (From June 15, 2026) In recent days, federal agents have knocked on the doors of family, friends, and former employees, not because they found a crime, because they're simply trying to find one. (Cut) Donald Trump is simply the most corrupt president in American history.
TAPPER (Voiceover): This summer, the Justice Department launched an investigation into Newsom and his wife that, Newsom says, is a political witch hunt.
(To Newsom) Well, that's what Trump thinks about him.
NEWSOM: Well, exactly, yeah.
TAPPER: Trump thinks that -
NEWSOM: That’s what they've been doing for years
TAPPER: Yeah.
NEWSOM: And it's true in many respects.
TAPPER: What, you think some of those attorney general case, or the New York Manhattan case?
NEWSOM: I thought some of it, you know, I wasn't watching MS every night cheering that stuff on, I was like, this seems to me like this is getting a little too much.
TAPPER: I went to the court one of the days that Stormy Daniels testified. I was in Manhattan, and I went to - I went there. And I mean, I know - I'm not saying that he didn't commit crimes.
NEWSOM: Yeah.
TAPPER: I mean, obviously it was a novel way to prosecute by saying he committed a misdemeanor in service of another misdemeanor, and that makes it a felony. I'm not saying he's innocent, but no, it felt very small.
(...)
