In a stunning departure from MSNBC’s normally steadfast adherence to Democratic Party talking points, on her 9:00 a.m. ET hour show on Thursday, anchor Stephanie Ruhle actually grilled Democratic Hawaii Senator Brian Schatz over his party’s obsession with impeaching President Trump and questioned whether “centrist” “capitalist” voters would really vote for “far left” Democrats in the November midterm elections.
“Democrats, they are hopeful of the fast-approaching midterms, looking to take back one or maybe both chambers of Congress,” Ruhle optimistically declared at the top of the segment. However, she then offered a hard dose of reality: “Here’s my question – I ask it every day – what exactly is the party’s message? A growing number of Democrats say it should not be impeaching President Trump.”
After citing former Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid and Chicago Mayor Rahm Emmanuel warning against impeachment, she turned to Senator Schatz and pressed him on the issue. While making sure to say that she “completely understand[s] the impeachment argument,” Ruhle continued: “But the American people want their lives better. Is it a mistake for Democrats to continue to push on how morally reprehensible and unfit the President is?”
Schatz replied in part: “I think it is extremely unwise and unjust to start talking about that in advance of any process.” Though he still voiced support for the Russia investigation: “But I do think it’s important we’re party of the rule of law and insist on the operation of law and insist that the Mueller investigation allow – is allowed to complete itself.”
Ruhle then demanded the liberal lawmaker offer voters specific policy proposals to improve their lives: “I feel like when I hear from Democrats on a regular basis, they’re just going after Trump, and I get that, there’s a lot to go after, but if you want people to vote for you, you have to deliver them a better America. And what are you offering?”
After Schatz rattled off some standard Democratic agenda items like “college affordability” and vowing to “preserve the Affordable Care Act,” he predictably took a shot at the GOP:
I think one of the problems that the Republicans made in the last election is they weren’t ready to govern. And so part of what we have to do is the hard work of being prepared when the gavels get given to us, that we have a real legislative program to start to implement.
Ruhle didn’t let him off the hook:
What does “us” mean? Because you run the risk, if you push far to the left, that you’re going to lose the middle. And in the middle, you have a lot of centrists who maybe traditionally voted Republican who are disenfranchised, who don’t want to support President Trump. But those people in the middle who don’t want to support President Trump don’t want to support people on the far left. Their capitalists. They believe in the American dream and they want to be rich.
Schatz attempted to argue that the Democratic Party supports capitalism: “Sure. And so do I. And I think a lot of progressives are also totally supportive of market capitalism, but they understand the need for regulation.” He then immediately undermined that statement by pushing class warfare rhetoric: “They understand the need to protect the little guy. They understand that the way market capitalism is working right now is to suck wealth up and not to encourage entrepreneurship, not to help people to pursue the American dream.”
Ruhle challenged him: “Then why do you think business sentiment, small and large – and I mean small business people all around the country – why do you think small business sentiment is up under President Trump?” She then helpfully teed Schatz up to tell American business owners why they were wrong: “When if you actually look at his policies, he’s not necessarily gonna help those people, but they feel like he is. Why is that?”
The senator partly argued: “I think we have a good business platform, but Stephanie, I think you’re right, we sometimes don’t do a good job of framing what we’re talking about as embracing the American dream.” She urged Democrats to make a better sales pitch to voters: “You need to sell it harder. I think back to TPP and President Obama. While he may have put together an extraordinary program, didn’t sell it. So you’ve got to get those sales skills on fire.”
While Ruhle’s tough questions to Schatz were surprising, it was clear that the liberal anchor’s true motivation was to correct a potential vulnerability for Democrats and help them defeat Republicans.
Here is a transcript of the April 26 exchange:
9:47 AM ET
STEPHANIE RUHLE: Democrats, they are hopeful of the fast-approaching midterms, looking to take back one or maybe both chambers of Congress. Here’s my question – I ask it every day – what exactly is the party’s message? A growing number of Democrats say it should not be impeaching President Trump. Something former Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid is stressing. Listen.
FMR. SEN. HARRY REID [D-NV]: I’ve been through an impeachment. And they’re not pleasant. And I think the less we talk about impeachment, the better off we are as a country.
RUHLE: There’s also this warning from current Chicago Mayor and former White House Chief of Staff for Obama, Rahm Emanuel, telling Axios that impeachment should not be “a political tool.”
Joining me now, Democratic Senator Brian Schatz of Hawaii. Senator, to those points, I completely understand the impeachment argument. I understand the point Democrats are making day in and day out about the President’s conduct. But the American people want their lives better. Is it a mistake for Democrats to continue to push on how morally reprehensible and unfit the President is? People voted for him in spite of lack of morals.
SEN. BRIAN SCHATZ [D-HI]: Well, I think what we have to focus on, when it comes to this, is the rule of law and the operation of law. And I think when it comes to the question of impeachment that is a solemn question, that is a serious question, and it’s a question of law and of politics.
So from my standpoint, sitting in the United States Senate, if there ever were to be an impeachment, the United States Senate, senators individually would be serving as jurors. And therefore, I think it is extremely unwise and unjust to start talking about that in advance of any process.
But I do think it’s important we’re party of the rule of law and insist on the operation of law and insist that the Mueller investigation allow – is allowed to complete itself. That doesn’t mean that that’s what goes into our campaign commercials, but I think we can walk and chew gum at the same time, which is to talk about middle class economics, talk about what an awful bill this tax bill was, talk about health care and college affordability.
RUHLE: Okay, but then tell me, what are those platforms? Because I feel like when I hear from Democrats on a regular basis, they’re just going after Trump, and I get that, there’s a lot to go after, but if you want people to vote for you, you have to deliver them a better America. And what are you offering?
SCHATZ: Right, I think it’s a very good question, Stephanie. And let me just give you a couple of things. We have a very serious proposal for college affordability You know, in the last election there was a lot of conversation about college affordability, but the proposals were thin. We now have more than a dozen senators on a real proposal which will reverse the state disinvestment in higher education. That’s number one.
Secondly, not only are we going to preserve the Affordable Care Act, which is now more popular than ever, but we’re looking at expanding coverage through something called the Medicaid Public Option Act, Medicare for All. There are a lot of good proposals out there.
I think one of the problems that the Republicans made in the last election is they weren’t ready to govern. And so part of what we have to do is the hard work of being prepared when the gavels get given to us, that we have a real legislative program to start to implement. I think people agree with us generally, but they don’t believe that we mean it. And one of the things that I’m working on is making sure that we flesh out our legislative program so that after the election we’re ready to role.
RUHLE: What does “us” mean? Because you run the risk, if you push far to the left, that you’re going to lose the middle. And in the middle, you have a lot of centrists who maybe traditionally voted Republican who are disenfranchised, who don’t want to support President Trump. But those people in the middle who don’t want to support President Trump don’t want to support people on the far left. Their capitalists. They believe in the American dream and they want to be rich. I’m not saying –
SCHATZ: Sure. And so do I. And I think a lot of progressives are also totally supportive of market capitalism, but they understand the need for regulation. They understand the need to protect the little guy. They understand that the way market capitalism is working right now is to suck wealth up and not to encourage entrepreneurship, not to help people to pursue the American dream.
So one of the things that I’ve noticed is that when people are looking for centrists, they’re actually more concerned about tone than about policy. A lot of progressive policies are extremely popular, but if you ask people whether they’re comfortable with certain political views, they think they’re not progressives. Because what they don’t like is the yelling. What they don’t like is the shouting. What they don’t like is the constant accusations. But if you look at Conor Lamb, if you look at Ralph Northam, if you look at the 40 legislative seats at the local that were flipped over the last two years, a lot of them ran on a progressive platform, but dispositionally, a little more down the middle.
RUHLE: Then why do you think business sentiment, small and large – and I mean small business people all around the country – why do you think small business sentiment is up under President Trump? When if you actually look at his policies, he’s not necessarily gonna help those people, but they feel like he is. Why is that?
SCHATZ: Well, I think part of it is the economy overall is improving. And you know, it’s been improving for a number of years, the stock market continues to improve.
But a lot people are struggling. And one of the things that I think the Democrats need to do a better job of is describe why, for instance, ACA actually helps small business people to move from one entrepreneurial endeavor to the next. Why our college affordability plan is the ladder up to pursue the American dream. Why it makes no sense to undermine net neutrality. Why killing marijuana businesses across the country is anti-business.
So I think we have a good business platform, but Stephanie, I think you’re right, we sometimes don’t do a good job of framing what we’re talking about as embracing the American dream.
RUHLE: You need to sell it harder. I think back to TPP and President Obama. While he may have put together an extraordinary program, didn’t sell it. So you’ve got to get those sales skills on fire.
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