During an interview with Rep. Jim Jordan (R-OH), New Day co-host Chris Cuomo said that “if we didn’t rely on leaks, we would allow so much B.S. to get directly to the American people.”
Cuomo made this comments after Jordan brought up the fact that the FBI terminated its relationship with anti-Trump dossier author Christopher Steele. Cuomo responded by saying “That doesn’t make his material bad” and later argued that “We need leaks! We can’t trust you guys to tell the truth all the time.” Cuomo skipped the fact that Steele was hired by the Democrats to provide opposition research against Donald Trump during the 2016 campaign.
Perhaps it never occurred to Cuomo that leaks can actually contain "B.S." While it is certainly true that the American people cannot trust Congress to tell the truth all the time, the same applies to the media. Let’s not forget that CBS Evening News anchorman Dan Rather lost his job after citing a series of fraudulent memos critical of President George W. Bush’s performance in the Texas Air National Guard that he reported on weeks before the 2004 presidential election.
Jordan asked Cuomo “if you can’t trust him to keep a basic rule in a contractual relationship, if you can’t trust him for that, but you can still trust his work product?” Cuomo then tried to defend Steele, saying “Maybe he didn’t know the guidelines.” A flabbergasted Jordan responded by saying “Oh my goodness.”
The testy exchange between Cuomo and Rep. Jordan lasted for more than ten minutes. Earlier in the conversation, Cuomo accused Rep. Jordan of espousing the “Kelly understanding of humanity” after Jordan said that he supported reforming the welfare system to incentivize work. The “Kelly understanding of humanity” refers to comments made by White House Chief of Staff John Kelly suggesting that many illegal immigrants were “too lazy to get off their asses” and apply for protection under President Obama’s controversial executive order known as DACA. Cuomo apparently believed that Kelly’s comments, in addition to Jordan’s idea that the American government should do everything it can to encourage people to get off welfare, proved that Republicans were uncaring.
CHRIS CUOMO: Now, President Trump said he wouldn’t touch entitlements.
REP. JIM JORDAN: Well, we, we’ve talked to the President, actually, about welfare reform. And he is, he, he supports the idea of reforming our food stamp program, reforming some of our welfare programs, helping people...
CUOMO: What does that mean, reforming? How is reform different than cut?
JORDAN: No, reform is this. Incentivize work. If you’re an able-bodied adult, you should have to do something to get taxpayer money. That is an 80 per...that’s an issue that Democrats support, Republicans support, independents support. Let’s get that done. That will save money in the long run. More importantly, it will help people who are trapped in our welfare system get to a better position in life; which is what we all should be for. I think we all are for that and that’s why it’s an 80 percent issue across the country.
CUOMO: Are you extending the Kelly understanding of humanity a little bit in this country? Do you believe that people who are on welfare are lazy?
JORDAN: No, I believe that we should incentivize work. I believe people make choices. And when it pays more to not go to work...
CUOMO: You think people would rather be on welfare than work? I mean, you know, you know this situation...
JORDAN: I think sometimes we incentivize...
CUOMO: Because you know how this has been painted. And you know it’s been inaccurate in the past. Do you believe that most people on welfare would rather be there than work?
JORDAN: No, I think most people would rather be working. But when the incentives are wrong, when you fall of the cliff, when you go get a job...what we need is a phase-down. We need to incentivize people so they want to get out of welfare, off of this dependency cycle, out of this dependency cycle and to a better position in life. I think that is good for taxpayers, I think it’s good for our budget. Most importantly, I think it’s good for human beings who are stuck in the system. That’s what I’m for.
REP. JIM JORDAN: And those three times that they reauthorized it, guess what? They didn’t tell the Court that they had terminated their relationship with Chris Steele, and yet kept using his work product. And you know why they terminated their relationship with Christopher Steele?
CHRIS CUOMO: Because he said he was working with the FBI, not because his work product was bad.
JORDAN: He told you guys. He told the press he was working with the FBI.
CUOMO: That doesn’t make his material bad. Hey, if we didn’t rely on leaks, we would allow so much B.S. to get directly to the American people. We need the leaks, Jim. We can’t trust you guys to tell us the truth all the time.
JORDAN: You think it’s okay–So you think it’s okay to go to a secret court, get a secret warrant...
CUOMO: It’s not a secret court. It’s made by legislation. It’s called FISA. The foreign...you know what it is, right?
JORDAN: I know what it’s called. Yeah. But do you think it’s okay to go to that Court and not fully disclose to the Court the source of the main thing you used to get that warrant? Who paid for it, how it’s financed, and not to tell them that the guy who wrote that document has been terminated by the FBI because he went out and broke a cardinal rule. He talked to the press and said he was working with the FBI. You’re gone but we’re still going to use your work product to spy on an American.
CUOMO: I hear you, Jim. The second part is completely irrelevant. The way the guy conducted himself with respect to his relationship with the FBI – by the way, he’s a British agent, not an American one. That’s irrelevant to...
JORDAN: I know he’s a British agent.
CUOMO: ...the sustainability and the worth of his information. Now, as to the first point. What I find...
JORDAN: If you can’t trust him to keep a basic rule in a contractual relationship, if you can’t trust him for that, but you can still trust his work product? Come on, Chris. That’s ridiculous.
CUOMO: They’re totally separate. You’re arguing the old meme of correlation equals causation. And it’s not the same thing. Maybe he didn’t know what their guidelines were. There could be a thousand reasons. Who cares?
JORDAN: Oh my goodness.
CUOMO: They vetted the individual material themselves and they built on it. And I’ll tell you what’s shocking to me, Jim. Especially for nuts and bolts guys like you...
JORDAN: You don’t know that. You don’t know that.
CUOMO: No, you don’t know it. You don’t know it.
JORDAN: No, you don’t know that.
CUOMO: You don’t know any of this, Jim. You didn’t even read the application. You trusted Trey Gowdy who wants to resign rather than stay a part of this.