In the only newsworthy counterprogramming of the first GOP presidential debate Wednesday night, former Fox News host Tucker Carlson interviewed former President Donald Trump on his show "Tucker on X." While the sitdown lasted over 46 minutes, there were a few wild moments that are sure to grab headlines.
"Why aren’t you at the Fox News debate tonight in Milwaukee?" Carlson asked Trump in his first question of the interview. In response, Trump explained that "a lot of people have been asking me that, and many people said you shouldn’t do them. But you see the polls that have come out and I’m leading by 50 and 60 points, and some of them are at one and zero, and two. And I’m saying do I sit there for an hour or two hours?"
"Whatever it’s going to be and get harassed by people that shouldn’t even be running for President? Should I be doing that? And a network that isn’t particularly friendly to me, frankly they were backing Ron Desanctimonious like crazy and now they’ve given up on him. It’s a lost cause," Trump explained.
The next question from Tucker came as a follow-up to Trump's commentary ripping into the news media and their bias toward him: "Do you think television is declining?"
"Well, according to a poll that I guess we just saw, it just came out where it's down like 30, 35 percent. But I think they were talking, referring to cable, I think cable is down because it's lost credibility," Trump insisted. "MSNBC or as they say, MSDNC is so bad, it's so wrong. What they write and what they do and what they say it's, you know, it's fake news."
CNN was also a target: "you have CNN who's absolutely doing no ratings at all. I mean, they're dead but they're doing none because they don't have credibility."
Carlson then asked a question that you don't often hear from cable news hosts (current or former): "Do you think it's possible that Epstein was killed?"
"Sure. It's possible," Trump replied.
"He was killed," Carlson insisted. "I think the more the closer you look, I'm not a conspiracy person at all. I believe everything I hear. Uh, but, yeah, the closer you look into it, I mean, the Attorney General of the United States, your Attorney General clearly lied about the Epstein death," Carlson explained.
"I'm looking at the trajectory since 2015 when you got into politics, you know, for real. And then won, there, it started with protests against you," Carlson observed. "Massive protests, organized protests by the left and then it moved to impeachment twice. And now indictment. I mean, the next stage is, is violence is, are you worried that they're gonna try and kill you? Why wouldn't they try and kill you?"
Trump seemed taken aback by Carlson's question. "They’re savage animals," Trump responded. "They are people that are sick, really sick. You have great people in the Democrat Party. You have great people that are Democrats. Most of the people in our country are fantastic and I'm representing everybody."
Carlson drilled down on his thesis that there could be an escalation in the United States against Trump:
CARLSON: If the protest didn't work, you got elected anyway. Impeachment didn't work twice. Obviously. The indictment is not working. Your poll numbers go up when they raided Mar A Lago in August of last year. Your numbers went up, um, they can indict you 20 times and it's not gonna, you're not gonna lose the Republican primary because of that.
TRUMP: So it makes it look even more ridiculous. I mean, the four indictments, and maybe there'll be more, I don't know, these people are crazy.
CARLSON: But they're counterproductive. So, if you chart it out, it's an escalation is what I'm saying. So, what's next after, you know, try to put you in prison for the rest of your life? That's not working. So, like, don't they have to kill you now?
Later on in the interview, Trump boasted about how well he's held up in spite of the barrage of indictments against him: "These people are sick and they will go after them and a lot of people say they won't be able to hold up. I do get credit for holding up quite well. I must tell you."
"How do you do that? How do you get indicted? You know, every week and stay cheerful," Carlson inquired.
"I think it, it's a lot easier. Because I'm, I'm so high in the polls because it means the people get it," Trump responded.
The transcript is below. Click "expand" to read:
Tucker on X
8/23/2023TUCKER CARLSON: Why aren’t you at the Fox News debate tonight in Milwaukee?
DONALD TRUMP: Well, you know, a lot of people have been asking me that, and many people said you shouldn’t do them. But you see the polls that have come out and I’m leading by 50 and 60 points, and some of them are at one and zero, and two. And I’m saying do I sit there for an hour or two hours? Whatever it’s going to be and get harassed by people that shouldn’t even be running for President? Should I be doing that? And a network that isn’t particularly friendly to me, frankly they were backing Ron Desanctimonious like crazy and now they’ve given up on him. It’s a lost cause.
[...]
CARLSON: Do you think television is declining?
TRUMP: Well, according to a poll that I guess we just saw, it just came out where it's down like 30, 35 percent. But I think they were talking, referring to cable, I think cable is down because it's lost credibility. MSNBC or as they say, MSDNC is so bad, it's so wrong. What they write and what they do and what they say it's, you know, it's fake news. As I said, I think I came up with that term. I hope I did because it's a good one. It's not tough enough anymore. It's corrupt news, you know, really. What you do is call corrupt news, but somehow that doesn't play as nicely. But, uh, it is corrupt news. So you have, uh, MSNBC and you have CNN who's absolutely doing no ratings at all. I mean, they're dead but they're doing none because they don't have credibility. They really don't have credibility. Fox is way down as, you know, and, uh, the good old days are, are long ago. I will say this, it could come back but they have, they just don't have a lot of credibility. Tucker, you know, that perhaps better than anybody. I think it was a terrible move getting rid of you. You were number one on television and all of a sudden you're, we're doing this interview but we'll get bigger ratings using this crazy forum that you're using then probably probably the debate or competition.
[...]
CARLSON: Do you think it's possible that Epstein was killed?
TRUMP: Oh, sure. It's possible. I mean, I don't really believe, I think he probably, uh, committed suicide. He had a life with, you know, beautiful homes and beautiful everything, and he, uh, all of a sudden he's incarcerated and not doing very well. I would say that he did. But there are those people, there are many people, I think you're one of them. Right. But a lot of people think that he, uh, he was killed, he knew a lot on a lot of people.
CARLSON: He was killed.
TRUMP: You think so?
CARLSON: I think, I think the more the closer you look, I'm not a conspiracy person at all. I believe everything I hear. Uh, but, yeah, the closer you look into it, I mean, the Attorney General of the United States, your Attorney General clearly lied about the Epstein death.
TRUMP: Yeah, he was, he was, uh, certainly it wasn't well done. They had no cameras, they had no anything, everybody was sleeping and you know, there, the, a case could be made. Look, I'm not gonna get involved in it, but I can tell you a case could be made either way. But, uh, it certainly wasn't the most well-run place.
CARLSON: So, the reason I'm asking you is I'm looking at the trajectory since 2015 when you got into politics, you know, for real. And then won, there, it started with protests against you. Massive protests, organized protests by the left and then it moved to impeachment twice. And now indictment. I mean, the next stage is, is violence is, are you worried that they're gonna try and kill you? Why wouldn't they try and kill you? Honestly?
TRUMP: They’re savage animals. They are people that are sick, really sick. You have great people in the Democrat Party. You have great people that are Democrats. Most of the people in our country are fantastic and I'm representing everybody. I'm not just Republicans or I represent everybody. I’m the President of everybody, but I've seen what they do. I've seen the lengths that they go to when they make up the Russia, Russia, Russia.
[...]
CARLSON: If the protest didn't work, you got elected anyway. Impeachment didn't work twice. Obviously. Indictment is not working. Your poll numbers go up when they raided Mar A Lago in August of last year. Your numbers went up, um, they can indict you 20 times and it's not gonna, you're not gonna lose the Republican primary because of that.
TRUMP: So it makes it look even more ridiculous. I mean, the four indictments, and maybe there'll be more, I don't know, these people are crazy.
CARLSON: But they're counterproductive. So, if you chart it out, it's an escalation is what I'm saying. So, what's next after, you know, try to put you in prison for the rest of your life? That's not working. So, like, don't they have to kill you now?
[...]
CARLSON: So, if you're saying they stole it from me last time, why wouldn't they do the same this time?
TRUMP: Oh, well, they’ll try. They’re gonna be trying. Yeah. And not, not only me, you know, look, uh, DeSanctus is out. I think he's gonezo. He was, he was at a level. He's, people have figured him out. He's gone. But if somebody else got in, other than me, they'll go at him just as viciously as they did. Me, these people are sick and they will go after them and a lot of people say they won't be able to hold up. I do get credit for holding up quite well. I must tell you. I think it's—
CARLSON: Uh, how do you do that? How do you get indicted? You know, every week and stay cheerful.
TRUMP: It's, uh, I think it, it's a lot easier. Because I'm, I'm so high in the polls because it means the people get it.
