Resolving The Spitting Debate

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There's a growing blog debate going on as regards peace activists spitting on returning veterans during the Vietnam era. It begins here at Slate in an article claiming the charges are false.

The myth of the spat-upon Vietnam veteran refuses to die.

At Volokh, Jim Lindgren points out some weaknesses in search mechanisms that could lead to the stories not showing up in contemporaneous reports, leading to the assumption that it didn't happen.

Always up for a Google challenge, I decided to take a look and can confirm that spitting and more did in fact take place. Stored on a government server found via advanced Google, there's this first person account - also available in pdf.

As a young Marine officer Carl Bourne was trying to help recruit University of
Connecticut students into the USMC. Some UConn students responded by spitting at him and throwing ink on his dress uniform, Bourne said about his experience on the Storrs campus.

Bourne was the target of spitting and ink throwing in 1973. As a lieutenant he paid for his uniforms, so the ink was not a welcome alteration, especially considering the low pay of the early 1970s. He said he was also called a "baby killer" – right in his own home state.

Another instance is documented in a government fact sheet.

The Legacy of Psychological Trauma from the Vietnam War for American Indian Military Personnel

"I was spit on and called a baby-killer in the mainstream culture when I first came home, and no way any college would accept me or any good job would be open to me. I felt too ashamed and enraged to accept the love and gratitude my family and community showed me. I thought I was going crazy, waking up in a sweat trying to choke my wife, seeing signs of Charley around every corner when the weather was hot and steamy.

Another report covering multiple instances from Cornell that should also be available through the Library of Congress and a Veteran's History Project.

The Tet Offensive began 37 days after Henschel arrived in Vietnam. His unit was sent into Hue, the old imperial capital.

Henschel's platoon was almost wiped out and Henschel himself was shot in the head when he tried to rescue a wounded comrade. The unconscious Marine was placed on top of a tank. When a shell hit the tank, Henschel fell off, and the tank apparently ran over his left leg.

"At this point, probably everyone thought I was dead, but I was unconscious for seven weeks. I regained consciousness in San Diego, Calif., at the naval hospital there. I weighed 72 pounds," Henschel said.

Henschel tried to go to college after he recovered, but he had trouble concentrating because of his injury and discovered that many fellow students at Cornell were hostile.

"I can't count the number of times I was called a murderer," he said. "And actually spit in my face."

Another first person account via a DOD publication:

Back in the 1960s, Cannon graduated from high school and 10 days later was enlisted in the Air Force. He was stationed at Clark Air Base in the Philippines for 17 months beginning in June, 1967. Upon his return to the United States, he was spit on three times while riding the cable cars in San Francisco simply because he was in uniform.

This below from a California Assembly Bill on Public Safety circa 2003:

"Overcome by their hatred, people threw rocks at the returning soldiers.  Some spit at them.  Others physically attacked them and tormented them.  No one should have to endure that kind of hate-related violence for simply agreeing to serve their country."

None of the above reports have a dog in this fight now. But obviously they support reports like this at Black Five:

It happened to me, and I asked my father if it had ever happened to him.  If anyone were to be on the receiving end, it would have been him after being involved in the Ohio State riots and Ohio University riots for years.

As The Jawa Report suggests, the notion that returning veterans weren't abused, particularly by spitting, after Vietnam is simply pathetic revisionism by an increasingly revolting Left that opposes the war, while claiming to support the troops.

Were that so, they would not be so interested in revising history and, by default, calling so many of our troops, both past and present, liars to boot.

So, can we question their patriotism now?

—Dan Riehl is a blogger and journalist. Read more of his work at Riehl World View.


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I don't question those in the

I don't question those on the hard left patriotism, I call them traitors, just more proof they can't even live with their own kind.

Can't imagine this is even up

Can't imagine this is even up for debate. There are simply too many Vietnam era Vets who can attest to this for it to be questioned. I served in the Navy and was in Philadelphia summer of 1973. In the Temp barracks waiting for my ship, got "volunteered" to join the Honor Guard leading the Pocono 500 race parade in Philly. (4 of us "volunteered") Anyway had a good laugh later with the other guys as they called us all baby killers and spat at us as we marched. Thought it was funny as we were all just out of our 'A' schools waiting to get to our ships. Had never even made it to our ships must less to Vietnam just made us laugh with these idiots being so clueless.

Spitting on troops today ? Why it likely isn't happening

Spitting on troops today ? Why it likely isn't happening, or happening very, very little.

Today that offense can land a person in jail rather quickly I would imagine. I think it fell out of vogue when the AIDS embroiled left promoted being the gift giver and gift reciever.

 As far as I know, spitting on someone is jailtime.

As one neo-Nazi put it, &qu

As one neo-Nazi put it,

"The real purpose of Holocaust revisionism is to
make National Socialism an acceptable political alternative
again."

The purpose of anti-patriotic historical revisionism must be similar in nature. It exists to make traitorism an acceptable political alternative.

If the liberals get to make t

If the liberals get to make that piece of history disappear we get to get rid of a piece of history ourselves.. like.. oh wait history is always on our side..

Liberals get to remake histor

Liberals get to remake history by remaking the books that our students read.  Didja know that the years before Christ's birth are referred to as "BCE"?  Meaning, "Before Common Law"?  I asked my son, what does "Before Common Law" mean?   Well, he said, about 2,000 years ago.  "Oh!"  I said.  You mean "Before Christ was born?"  And get this!  There is no longer "AD" amongst history students.  AD referes to "Anno Domini" meaning, the Year of our Lord".  There's only BCE for today's students.  The ones who get to write college and high school books are the ones who win.

Wait.. so nothing has replace

Wait.. so nothing has replaced AD they just got rid of it? I.. don't... get... it... what do we call years after BC?
Are we going to get rid of the names of the week to? They are all named for nordic gods, Wednesday is wodin's (odin) day, thursday thors day, so we have to get rid of the names of the day of the week right? 

Scout, BCE means "Before

Scout, BCE means "Before the Common Era."  It is approximately the same as B.C., "Before Christ", but most of the world is not Christian, hence the change.

"A communist is someone who reads Marx.  An anti-communist is someone who understands Marx."  Ronald Reagan

But.. even though most of th

But.. even though most of the world isn't christian, a majority of it is. I don't get this PC stuff... its meaningless.

Sorry, I am not normally one

Sorry, I am not normally one of the grammar police. (I make many mistakes myself). But the above sentence deserves a prize!

I fundamentally disagree with

I fundamentally disagree with you there.  I would estimate that there are only about 100 million actual Christians on the planet.

I think fossten is correct.

I think fossten is correct. The majority of the planet is not Christian. I believe that Christians only account for approximately 33% of the world population. 66% do not subscribe to any form of Christianity.

Sorry, guys, but when Pope Jo

Sorry, guys, but when Pope John Paul II died, the media outlets ALL used the number "over a billion" when describing Roman Catholics alone. NOT "all Christians." AND used the same number when Pope Benedict XVI was installed. Even I was surprised, and made a point of listening closely. It was repeated over and over..."over a billion."

Further, using truthsquad's own estimate, 33% of 6 billion (world population, right?) yields 2 billion. Not a "majority," but definitely a sizeable chunk. Possibly a "plurality?" If more than 33% is another specific religion, that doesn't leave much room for all of the rest, does it?

Way more that "100 million," either way. Simple math.

Regards,
IJ

Oops wrong word not majority.

Oops wrong word not majority. God, what is that word.. Plurality is the right word. Sorry about that, my mind was somewhere else. Actually I think there are a billion christians at least. http://www.religionf... according to this site 2 billion, though that sounds like a bit to many. Sorry if it doesn't show up as a link my browsers giving me trouble.

CE has now replaced AD. CE st

CE has now replaced AD. CE stands for Common Era. Or as I like to say Christian Era when this comes up for debate. And again when the say BCE, reply by stating, oh you mean Before the Christian Era.

RR

Yup ...

Excellent post, Dan. This is a classic example of liberals attempting to revise history and scrub unflattering episodes from their past. Like the awful treatment of Gov. Bob Casey at the 1992 DNC convention and the Michael Steele-Oreo incident in 2002, libs want to do anything to give the impression that these terrible things never happened - even though they did.

Nice job.

Someone correct me if I'm wro

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Google created by, and still run by, people on the left side of the political aisle? As such, I would never consider it to be a "reliable" search engine for info on this sort of thing.

After all, this is the same search engine that when you type the word "Bush" in (nothing else), you find this in the top five results:

http://www.bushorchimp.com/

Quote:

"Welcome to www.bushorchimp.com!Welcome to the "George W. Bush or Chimpanzee" webpage. This is a little project I decided to start once I realized how much George W. Bush looks like a chimpanzee. I'm not a member of any political party, and I have nothing in particular against the man. I just think he kind of looks like a chimpanzee. "

The fact that this site is one of the top 5 for this keyword on Google shows their "objectivity" is nil. 

Try Metacrawler- my favorite

Try Metacrawler- my favorite search engine.

Sad to say, Metacrawler uses

Sad to say, Metacrawler uses Google as one of its search engines as well. It was also "invented" by academics:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MetaCrawler

Revisionist history indeed.Ch

Revisionist history indeed.

Check this out....from those who were there, and to whom it happened.

link ...

Thanks, Blonde. I found a must-see link at Blackfive.

If anyone ever tries to make the argument that there are no contemporaneous accounts of spitting incidents, show them this:

CBS Evening News for Monday, Dec 27, 1971: "Headline: Vietnam Veteran" ("Delmar Pickett ... returns from Vietnam ... tells of being spit on in Seattle, WA")

(Jack Shafer, Slate: "In researching the book, [author/vet Jerry] Lembcke found no news accounts or even claims from the late 1960s or early 1970s of vets getting spat at. ") ... Jack Shafer and Jerry Lembcke ... are ... debunked!

It would be interesting to se

It would be interesting to see who was hosting the CBS Evening News on that particular day in 1971. Since it was 2 days after Christmas, my guess is that Uncle Walter had the day off  :-)

Just as I find it unlikely

Just as I find it unlikely that every soldier was spat upon, I find it even more unlikely that in an environment so hostile to the military, that none of the millions of soldiers were spat upon by any of those angry anti-war protesters who were caught on film calling them "baby killers" and "murderers." During the Vietnam era, there was no peer pressure or wall of public support, even among much of the anti-war set, to restrain their hatred as there is now. As toxic as the situation was, and as much as the protesters hated those soldiers, why would they restrain their antagonism to exclude spitting, when they felt free to bomb college science labs and recruiting offices? I think this is revisionist history trying to make the anti-war movement look better than than they actually were. It also has to do with today's anti-war movement and establishing a fake history of "respectful peace protesters" who just love the troops enough just care about the troops and want them home safe. And, of course, right into Darfur.

Personal experience....In the

Personal experience....

In the early 80's at a state run university in the northland I was called a "BabyKiller" on more than one occasion, and while I was never spit upon, on one occasion I had water sprayed on me because I was wearing a Class - A uniform.  This was done by a long haired former protestor as I walked past. 

The former protester later got a teaching gig in the "Peace Studies" department.

and it's happening everyday i

and it's happening everyday in the hear and now, when Rosie opens her big fat mouth. They have buckets full by the end of every show.

Advanced Google?Did I not g

Advanced Google?

Did I not get a memo?

Christopher Fotos/

PostWatch

John Kerry went to the Sena

John Kerry went to the Senate and personally spat on all the troops, vets and serving in 1971.

So let's have no more nonsense that an assorted group of paltroons comprising commies, trotskeyists, socialists and other rats of the left wouldn't have fragged a soldier given a chance.

And that led by the likes of John Kerry they spent all their time consumed with hatred of the United States military.

Whether they actually physically gobbed up a throat full of phlegm, or metaphorically by their actions in life, they SPAT upon the troops. And they continue to do the same now, although some try to hide it.

No ifs, ands, buts or lying now is going to change that fact.


A "progressive" = a liberal = a socialist = a commie in drag =
laughably wrong about life, the universe and everything.

This debate baffles me.  I w

This debate baffles me.  I was there.  I personally and at different times saw anti-Vietnam War protestors (a) hurl verbal insults and physical objects at men/women in uniform.  (b) spit upon at least one individual wearing a Class A uniform.  (c) physically assault an NROTC Midshipmen returning from weekend drill in uniform.

For me, there is no debate.  And from what I see now, the most rabid of the anti-war lot are no different than they were 35 or 40 years ago.   I personally have no knowledge of any contemporary spitting, but it did happen a generation ago and allegations that has happened again are not incredible.

There have been two incidents of 'spitting' lately reported.

There have been two incidents of 'spitting' lately reported.

One was in Maine, I think, and the other at the Mall during the anti-war demonstration with the guy who lost his legs and was in the papers when he was at Walter Reed.

In my opinion this is criminal assault and any soldier reading this should seek out the police and have the offender arrested.  Then sue in civil court for attempted murder on the AIDS issue and at the minimum embarrass the person with full disclosure of their health status; their sex lives and their associations.

ACA

...

Hillary Clinton says:  "I want to take those profits."

I served in the Navy during t

I served in the Navy during the Vietnam War I can honestly say that rocks and bottles where thrown at me during that time and I was spit on more than once. I was also called alot of things that I won't repeat.

I don't plan on letting the "left" forget about their "patriatism" toward the USA and our military, then and now.