ABC's Charles Gibson and George Stephanopoulos on Friday night lamented the lost “hope” in the defeat of the compromise “immigration reform” bill as Gibson fretted about how “polarization” killed it. “Immigration bust,” Gibson teased World News: “Is there still hope for immigration reform after a highly touted deal falls apart?” He then led the newscast by repeating his “hope” line: “Many had great hopes for the compromise.” Turning to George Stephanopoulos in Iowa, Gibson proposed: “The left and the right opposed it. So you've got this polarization that killed the bill, and also the President's strength wasn't enough to keep it alive.” Stephanopoulos agreed as he held conservatives most culpable: “This was driven by the wings on either side. Liberal Democrats who didn't like the guest worker program, probably even more important, conservative Republicans who thought this program was amnesty, they drove this process, they killed the bill.”
That prompted Gibson to ruminate: “So it makes you wonder, right now, the way things stand, if our political system is really equipped to attack and solve the big problems?” Stephanopoulos confirmed: “Certainly not this big problem, Charlie, even though, as I said, a majority of Americans support it.”
But that's a pretty slim majority, as ABC News polling chief Gary Langer reported in a June 4 summary of an ABC News/Washington Post poll:
Overall, a narrow majority, 52 percent, favors giving illegal immigrants the right to live and work in the United States legally if they pay a fine and meet other requirements, as Bush, in a compromise plan with Democrats, has proposed. But Republicans around the country oppose the idea by a 10-point margin, 53 percent to 43 percent.
Of course, it's hard for the public to know what's in the bill, particularly the automatic legalization of all illegals in the country, when the major media give it so little coverage. The latest evidence of the lack of media interest: Neither the CBS Evening News or NBC Nightly News uttered a syllable Friday night about the immigration bill and CBS and NBC gave it just a couple of sentences Friday morning. ABC's Good Morning America, however, aired a segment, naturally one hostile to opponents. For details, check Scott Whitlock's item: “ABC’s Cuomo Slams Tancredo for Spreading 'Scary' 'Anti-Immigrant Sentiment.'”
In fact, the majority shares the perspective of conservatives against the deal. A late May New York Times poll asked: “Should illegal immigrants be prosecuted and deported for being in the U.S. illegally, or shouldn’t they?” 69 percent said they should be prosecuted, 24 percent said they should not. See Tim Graham's NewsBusters post for more on that poll and the selective reporting of it by the New York Times.
This is the second night in a row ABC has rued the demise of the bill. My June 7 NewsBusters item, “ABC Frets Over Demise of 'Landmark' Immigration Deal; NBC Sees 'Extremes' at Fault,” recounted:
ABC's Charles Gibson fretted Thursday night over the likely impending demise of the “landmark” immigration deal as George Stephanopoulos blamed conservatives and on NBC Chip Reid faulted “extremes on the left and the right.” Gibson teased World News: “Tonight, the landmark compromise on immigration is in big trouble on Capitol Hill. Some Senators saying if we can't pass this, we can't pass anything.” Gibson proceeded to assert that the bill “was considered the best hope for doing something on immigration.” After a story from Jake Tapper on the debate in the Senate, Gibson expressed frustration to George Stephanopoulos: “What's so counterintuitive to me, George, is that a lot of the Senators who think and say most strongly that something has to be done to reform immigration are the ones who are voting for these killer amendments.” Stephanopoulos held conservatives responsible: “They are getting a lot of cross pressures, Charlie, particularly on the conservative side.”Meanwhile, on the NBC Nightly News, Chip Reid described how Democrats are opposed to the temporary worker program because of how it may take jobs from Americans and Republicans are opposed to what they consider “amnesty” for illegals -- both mainstream views in the two parties. Yet Reid applied an “extreme” tag: “You've got the extremes on the left and the right trying to kill the entire bill, rather than except the provisions they detest.”
The MRC's Brad Wilmouth corrected the closed-captioning against the video for the June 8 segment on ABC's World News with Charles Gibson:
CHARLES GIBSON: One of President Bush's top domestic priorities, immigration reform, appears to be dead, killed by the Senate last night. A compromise plan that would have tightened border security and put many illegal immigrants on the road to citizenship was soundly defeated in the Senate. Many had great hopes for the compromise. So why did it go down to defeat? George Stephanopoulos is in Des Moines, Iowa, tonight. George, they needed 60 votes to keep this bill alive, and they fell 15 votes short. That shows it didn't have a whole lot of support?GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS: In the end, it didn't get that close, Charlie, although the blame game is in full swing today. Republicans say they could have had a deal come together if Harry Reid, the Senate Majority Leader, had just given them another night to put it together. Democrats say they gave the Republicans every single chance, but conservatives were just determined to vote no. Neither side is giving up hope yet, but the chances of this coming back together right now are very slim.
GIBSON: George, doesn't this really show how polarized right now our political system is? The Senators supporting this were mostly in the ideological center. The left and the right opposed it. So you've got this polarization that killed the bill, and also the President's strength wasn't enough to keep it alive.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Even though a majority of Americans support the idea of immigration reform as outlined, and you had stalwarts on the left like Teddy Kennedy behind it, and the President himself behind it. This was driven by the wings on either side. Liberal Democrats who didn't like the guest worker program, probably even more important, conservative Republicans who thought this program was amnesty, they drove this process, they killed the bill.
GIBSON: So it makes you wonder, right now, the way things stand, if our political system is really equipped to attack and solve the big problems?
STEPHANOPOULOS: Certainly not this big problem, Charlie, even though, as I said, a majority of Americans support it. President Bush is not giving up. He was making phone calls today, he's going to Capitol Hill next week to try to talk this up. He's going to take to the airwaves again. But as one senior Republican aide told me tonight, the chances of this actually getting resurrected this year are below 25 percent.
—Brent Baker is Vice President for Research and Publications at the Media Research Center
Editor at Large
Comments Policy
Dudes, you have the pulse of
June 8, 2007 - 20:14 ET by Atomic CrusaderDudes, you have the pulse of nothing and are as shameless as you are clueless.
Rasmussen Reports gives the
June 8, 2007 - 20:19 ET by Right2thePointRasmussen Reports gives their take on what happened and why
http://tinyurl.com/2slu2v
Geez...These two dynamic duo'
June 8, 2007 - 20:27 ET by bigtimerGeez...
These two dynamic duo's are still whining and moaning about the will of the American People being done.
Get over it...you will have to find some other way to cheat at the ballot box, it is bad enough as it is.... you are nothing but an arm of the leftist La Raza group adn all of their ilk and the loony leftist party that want power at any cost....
Well we spoke out loud and clear...in unison....from sea to shining sea ...and we will not stop speaking out loud and clear, we know this will be tried again, it will not work...again.......so spin, moan, complain on and on...it is NOT going to change one damned thing about our anger and outrage out here you simple little fools.
LOUD AND PROUD
June 8, 2007 - 22:04 ET by RJThey think it's an insult to call us loud...well, WE'RE LOUD AND WE'RE PROUD. We stopped (for now) Bush, Kennedy and all the other agenda-driven politicos who are willing to destroy our country in exchange for cheap labor.
But there are reports that Bush has sent a message to his bully-boys in both parties to push the same amnesty program AGAIN.
Just like the liberal media, the political sell-outs have no clue that Americans are on to their agenda.
Viva la revolucion!
Good evening RJ...I heard abo
June 8, 2007 - 22:14 ET by bigtimerGood evening RJ...
I heard about Bush meeting on Capitol Hill before these votes were even done and posted about that fact somewhere about this yesterday or the day before....lol....
Like I said before....
Make OUR DAY!
I have had it.
RJ, I honestly don't know wha
June 8, 2007 - 22:33 ET by Dave RRJ,
I honestly don't know what Mr. Bush's problem is. After the events of this week, either he's deaf or his advisers are blind, or some combination of both. Either way, I don't give a damn anymore.
If this hideous idea of allowing possibly 100 mil. plus aliens to migrate into this country over the next ten years is, as he says, "good for America", than I suggest he strongly consider ambling on back to Crawford.
This man took an oath, and should he somehow sign this BS into law he will be, in my judgment, in direct violation of that oath.
I think its time for all of us to wake up to the fact that we have all been screwed.
I posted excerpts today--
June 8, 2007 - 22:51 ET by misterbillI posted excerpts today--they are by Fredo Arias-King from CIS. It is a rather long article but his words echo my every thought. Titled "Immigration and Usurpation" it is , in my opinion the epitaph for the United States written before its death. The author hits every aspect of the impact not only of illegal immigration, but uncontrolled immigration. I have stated here many times that in my opinion the US was being destroyed from within. The author explains how. He also explains why the politicians are in opposition to the voting public. I advocate everyone should read it. It should scare you to death. I posted earlier 3 excerpts. I will post one now. HERE is the article for those who care to red how America is dying.
"The degree of usurpation and neglect of their fiduciary duty by legislators could provoke immigration-reform advocates to engage increasingly in civil resistance, so that instead of influencing political institutions through civic engagement (as Americans traditionally have), they may attempt to politicize individual institutions. Their direct actions are already being reported: local officers taking it upon themselves to detain illegal migrants, sit-ins at immigration offices, vandalizing of Mexican restaurants, threatening calls to the Hispanic mayor of Los Angeles, etc. Once these types of mobilizations begin, they will be difficult to stop."
Love this statement-by
June 8, 2007 - 22:58 ET by misterbillLove this statement-by the editors of National Review.
"What happened is that the American people came out of the shadows. Their opposition to the Senate’s grand compromise, amplified and given voice by talk radio and other dissenting media voices, were enough to carry the day."
I cannot believe how the pro-illegal criminal, felonious advocates of illegality leaped on Fat Boys phrase "Out of the Shadows" and have beaten it to death in such a short time. The editors of NR , I am sure , had great fun including that above.
misterb...Thank you so much.I
June 8, 2007 - 23:07 ET by bigtimermisterb...
Thank you so much.
I am going to print this out..it is going to be sent to some people who I know who should or would want to read this in full, but do not like to sit in front of a computer...including my husband...who by the way is very informed on this and has been outraged by the President on this matter far longer than me.
....this will be passed around too via the PC.
Rich with information that says it all .....if anyone has paid attention politically for the last ten years at least they can see that every word that I did read is exactly true ...already happened..and is on the way to happen, unless we get the message out in full force and wake others up that are not informed and complacent...this is enough to make them not so.
BT -- in my posts --way back--
June 8, 2007 - 23:27 ET by misterbillBT -- in my posts --way back--you have seen me enter that the USA will wind up in a violent--(read guns. etc) explosion over this issue. Tumbler aside, most of us simply cannot understand the desire of our fellow Americans to endorse rampant immigration to result in aall the things that Arias-King said in his article. To this old man, the basics to have our second Civil War are cooking in the pots of Congress. Again, Arias addresses why and how. One thing that really grabbed me was his inclusion of Bush senior. I am at this point very opposed to any Bush--they are the conservative(?) version of the Kennedys.
An observation from my 52 years at work. People will, many times, subjugate their true feelings for acceptance. For example, one customer was rude to all the service people fom my company that covered his account. A new person was added to our team. This nasty person treated the new person quite differently than the others. One night, social time at the watering hole, the newbie went into a rant about how unfair we were to discuss the ogre in a negative fashion. He proceeded to tell us what a great guy he was, even though the newbie had witnessed the ogre's behavior. It is the nature of the human animal to behave his way. It takes a level-headed moral person to avoid the trap/Just as Arias describes our Congress, Senators and the Bush family. And, I know this is intuitive to me, but Pelosi looks like the biggest ass-kisser that ever walked the aisles of Congress. We need to replace every damned one of them ..We NEED term limits.
Where’s the coward that would not dare to fight for such a land? And the parent that wouldn't be honored by the sacrifice?
Sir Walter Scott & Noel Sheppard
misterb...I used to want term
June 8, 2007 - 23:43 ET by bigtimermisterb...
I used to want term limits too..but we have that with the vote.
Even if we did do that, there would still be a wolf in sheeps clothing to replace the one we thought was worse.
For me it is the non-interest with the American people not paying one bit of attention to who they vote for, what they say, what they stand for or if they even remember their name after they voted for them.
I feel their should be more requirements to be able to vote...but that is as far as I feel it would go to make a difference...there is so much illegal corruption with the votes...purposely..illegals were let in here for that very purpose too...I feel only property owners who pay property taxes should be able to vote...but I know that will never be.
I agree totally about all of your views about what is happening to this country...but in my opinion it is going to take a revolution of sorts, one way or the other, the masses will reach a boiling point here....we will fight within this country again...we are going to have to if you ask me...unless people wake up fast...which they won't...IMO....until it is too late...then we will have to have a mass revolution to take our country back.
For Bush to come back here and try to stick this in the eye of the American people....he can get you know what....I have lost all respect for him.
BT re:term limits
June 8, 2007 - 23:52 ET by misterbillBT re:term limits--I too once felt that way. My readings and learning over the past year+ that I have been retired has resulted in a change of mind on a few issues. This is one of them. I will give you one simple rebuttal.
"I used to want term limits too..but we have that with the vote."
Ted Kennedy.
(There are others--he is the worst--second --the office tends to corrupt anyone who occupies it.)
misterb...Your point is taken
June 9, 2007 - 00:04 ET by bigtimermisterb...
Your point is taken...
My point is...do you not think whoever takes his place will not be bought and paid for as a shill for his place?
In other words...I think at least we have to have someone to seem and I say seem to be different and not controlled by replacing him beforehand....
ahhhh...It is getting late....sure like to be across from you and talking about this all, my husband and I both have gone back and forth and changed our minds as the years go by...
I blame the laziness of the american people for not taking the time to learn who they should vote for...I mean really learn as much as we can anyway...not sound bites, or a party, but takle the time to research and read yourself.
BT I was born an raised in MA--
June 9, 2007 - 00:17 ET by misterbillBT I was born an raised in MA--I lived there when JFK was elected--I lived there when RFK was assassintaed. I lived there when Teddy let that poor girl drown.
You would not believe the idolatry of the voting public for the Kennedy family. Unreal, almost unbelievable. I can remember on JFK's first election as President. The night of the voting, in my section off Boston, young women were walking thoriugh the streets singing "Camelot". The same thing happened for Robert and Teddy in their campaigns. One could justifiably resent the fact that women got the vote watching that behavior. It was a hormonal decision by most. Even the men were adulators of the Kennedy's. You can probably tell by now, I was not one of the devotees. I was horified by the assassination of JFK. In spite of my horror, I felt that perhaps the next President would straighten things out--RIIIGGHHTT! I did not, do not and never will understand that type of idolatry. If Moses had come to Boston he would have hurled the tablets on the ground as his people gave tribute to Baal. Term limits. Term limits. IMHO we will lose somw good people with term limits, but they will leave before they become bad people.
I agree with your summation m
June 9, 2007 - 00:26 ET by bigtimerI agree with your summation more than you know misterb...
Now...my point was how do you not know someone isn't going to be prepared ahead of time to do the bidding for that politician anyway...it will happen...family dynasty or not, connections, strong-arming, empty-suits and money talk...just my opinion.
One can never be really sure. To handle some of that--
June 9, 2007 - 00:39 ET by misterbillOne can never be really sure. To handle some of that--I recommend an Ombudsman system. It needn't be a high payng position. Someone to check business, social and club affiliations. Also, if the candidate holds a seat(s) on the boards of corporations. I believe that most of these data are required to be released by the candidates. The ombudsman should have a modest expense account to go to DC to see which lobbyists are beating on our politicians' doors.
Now before you say, how can we trust a low paid ombudsman, I will say, look for people like me. Most older people who have a reasonable income (SS +some savings) cannot be bought. In the (almsot) year I have been posting, I certainly believe you would be above reproach.
Now the illegals need an ombudsman --hmm --who can I think of, hhmmmmm!
PS all politicians of both parties
June 9, 2007 - 00:45 ET by misterbillPS all politicians of both parties - once a month should have to sing this song before a morning session.
THIS IS MY COUNTRY
This is my coun-try! Land of my birth!This is my coun-try! Grand - est on earth!____
I pledge thee my al - le - giance, A-mer-i-ca,____the bold,
For this is my coun-try to have___ and to hold.___
What diff-'rence if I hail from North or South
Or from the East or West?____
My heart is filled with love for all of these.__
I on-ly know I swell with pride and deep within my breast
I thrill to see Old Glo-ry paint the breeze.
With hand up-on heart I thank the Lord For this my na-tive land,
For all I love is here with-in her gates.__
My sould is root-ed deep-ly in the soil on which I stand,
For these are mine own U-nit-ed States.
This is my coun-try! Land of my choice!_______
This is my coun-try! Hear my proud voice!_____
I pledge thee my al - le - giance, A-mer-i-ca,____the bold,
For this is my coun-try! To have and to hold.______
Please note the line---
June 9, 2007 - 00:48 ET by misterbillPlease note the line---
"For all I love is here with-in her gates.__"
Hmmm does that imply we have a fence?? That's what a gate means to me.
Where’s the coward that would not dare to fight for such a land? And the parent that wouldn't be honored by the sacrifice?
Sir Walter Scott & Noel Sheppard
misterb...What an excellent p
June 9, 2007 - 00:58 ET by bigtimermisterb...
What an excellent point!
Are you listening out there Eugenie...and all of your ilk.
misterb...I am roaring with l
June 9, 2007 - 00:47 ET by bigtimermisterb...
I am roaring with laughter at your last line there...
But your point is well taken too with ombudsman..I never thought of that...I still think eventually they would be bought off too...cain't hep it.
You know, one way or the other eventually good grand clean idea's always get corrupted within the political system.
<edit> for anyone reading this I was responding to the post above misterb's request of singing of the song...we posted within minutes of each other here....lol.
there is that exposure, but
June 9, 2007 - 00:52 ET by misterbillthere is that exposure, but Ombudsmen can have term limits too. I mya be considered an egotist--but I cannot be bought. I can be fooled , I am not the brightest light in the chandelier , but I am honest and true and love this country with every fiber of my being.. I will bet there are at least a million like me in America. Just reading the posts of a lot of NB bloggers, I feel we could find many, right on this site.
there is that exposure, but
June 9, 2007 - 00:52 ET by misterbilloooops!!
When the Democrats don't ge
June 8, 2007 - 20:32 ET by motherbeltWhen the Democrats don't get their way, it's because of "polarization." When the Democrats do get their way, it's because "moderate Republicans crossed the aisle in a spirit of bipartisanship", or "the Democrats beat back an attempt by extremist, right-wingers to defeat the bill."
Have I got that right?
You sure do mb.On top of that
June 8, 2007 - 20:35 ET by bigtimerYou sure do mb.
On top of that the President really ought to get a clue.
George said in the article that the chances are 25% that it will be resurrected....
Go ahead...MAKE OUR DAY!
"Shamnesty"
June 8, 2007 - 21:26 ET by iveseenitallRight on, BT. Down here in Florida Mel Martinez is hunkered in a bunker. The man has no response to the outrage of good Americans who simply want our laws to be LAWS, not simply ciphers which are subject to individual interpretation of men. Martinez won't even speak on talk shows which invite him. We call it "shamnesty" and won't have it shoved down our throats.
NEVER,NEVER trust a liberal
"probably even more im
June 8, 2007 - 21:19 ET by ckc1227"probably even more important, conservative Republicans who thought this program was amnesty,"
Correction: Conservative Republicans who KNOW this program is amnesty.
Tchahhh!
June 8, 2007 - 21:26 ET by dahliatraversTchahhh!
Why the rush? It's been over
June 8, 2007 - 21:34 ET by iveseenitallWhy the rush? It's been over 20 years since the last "amnesty". Will they pass this in the middle of the night? And I've never seen this Congress work so hard for the American people as they are for foreign nationals. Something smells here.
NEVER,NEVER trust a liberal
Whoa. You've said a mouthful
June 8, 2007 - 23:15 ET by Scout FinchWhoa. You've said a mouthful! Why is our senate and congress so intent on easing rules for illegal immigrants?
What about the rest of us who pay their bills and pay their salary?
I long for the day when these toads realize who pays their bills!
scout --please please go to the article at cis--
June 8, 2007 - 23:39 ET by misterbillscout --please please go to the article at cis--The author--in a long article will tell you why. He will also scare the tar out of you about what may be coming. It's a long read but worth every minute.
HERE
also here's a question in the article:
-"If mass immigration from Latin America has debatable benefits for the United States as a whole, if a majority of the American people is against it, and if immigrants cannot vote until they become naturalized (which can take years after their arrival), why would nine-tenths of the legislators we spoke with be so keen on increasing
immigration?"
Well Scout
June 8, 2007 - 23:55 ET by iveseenitallWell Scout, I personally don't think most of them think about who pays their bills or even what they have been elected for. Unfortunately, most of them are in it for themselves and their careers. As Rassmusen points out, that's why they were so shocked at the result yesterday. They are so isolated in Washington they don't know or care what most Americans think ( until election time). The reasons they want illegals to be given citizenship are hard to figure, but I have my suspicions. What is needed are Term Limits ( one term of six years for the President and just one or two for the rest). We also are in dire need of tort reform to curb the lawyers. But don't hold your breath.
P.S. When the President turned on his supporters over this I was shocked. The shock is over---now I'm angry beyond what I ever thought I'd be. So long , George.
NEVER,NEVER trust a liberal
Iveseenitall
June 9, 2007 - 00:06 ET by misterbillWe are mostly in agreement, in the article I keep referencing today--the author (Fredo Arias-King) says it is votes for the democrats, for the RINOs it's a cheap labor pool for the businessmen who wine and dine them. I believe when a crime is committed , there may be extenuating circumstances that temper the punishment. In this case neither party's reason ameliorates the crime. The DISconnection between our politicians and we voters was certanly highlighted by the righteous indignation of voters from both parties. I have been retired for a little over a year now. I have time to read/review a lot of issues. I am appalled at some of the things I have learned.
Scout - the rest of us who gi
June 9, 2007 - 04:54 ET by dahliatraversScout - the rest of us who give them their authority. Authority which some of them have been grossly abusing. We didn't vest them with power so that they would do away with our borders and our sovereignty.
I feel sorry for the Mexicans
June 8, 2007 - 21:37 ET by alamojbI feel sorry for the Mexicans, I really do. As a mater of fact I am about to donate money to an American Missionary who is buying pigs for poor farmers in Mexico. But enough is enough on this runaway immigration thing. We are being colonized by a second world country. Until congress adequately staffs immigration and the boder patrol, perhaps immigration should stop deporting people and instead drop the illegals off by the hundreds in these "sanctuary cities" and in Ted Kennedy's back yard.
"...The Democrats love chaos. The Republicans love order and discipline and waiting your turn." Chris Matthews on "Gregory Live" as reported by Scott Whitlock 16MAY2007 blog "Matthews Rips..."<
good post, alamojb
June 8, 2007 - 21:44 ET by tumblerWhen I express sympathy for the Mexicans they call me a troll.
In fact, they don't ask for sympathy. JOBS is all. Not the easy jobs, either. Try telling that to a bigot-club on the Web. They'll be all over your troll @ss.
Tumbler, let me tell you a li
June 8, 2007 - 22:50 ET by alamojbTumbler, let me tell you a little about myself. I have had a number of Hispanic co-workers, friends and aquaintances. I even dated one Hispanic girl. My favorite Battalion Commander when I was in the TX National Gaurd was Hispanic. He was the Battalion Commander, not once, but twice. I worked in the TOC as an S2 NCO, so I was around him a lot. I always liked Hispanics and for some reason they seemed to like this gringo back. But when I saw all those Mexican Flags in 2006 on the news, ( I was overseas in Kosovo) it was like the scales began to really fall from my eyes. I already knew there was an immigration issue, and I wanted the border secured. But seeing those Mexican flags waving in American Streets it did something to me. Later, when I got back from KOSOVO I began to study about the National Council of LA RAZA, and MEChA and AZLTAN and a government support Charter Schools in LA that teach Mexican Separatism ( that I also found to be an affiliate of NCLR, according to NCLR's own website.). I started realizing how many up and coming Hispanic politicians were unashamed members of MEChA. I find out that thousands of illegals have registered to vote in Texas, but an attempt to make it harder for them to vote was blocked by you know whom in the Texas State Senate. Well this former S2 NCO started putting it all together. Now I have trouble trusting any Hispanic I meet. Just today I saw a LA RAZA bumper sticker. Can you imagine a white guy running around with a bumper sticker that said " THE RACE"? But these guys get to go in closed door meetings with our politicians and swing deals to bring more of the RAZA to the US. Yeah, I still like Hispanics, but I will never trust them again.
"...The Democrats love chaos. The Republicans love order and discipline and waiting your turn." Chris Matthews on "Gregory Live" as reported by Scott Whitlock 16MAY2007 blog "Matthews Rips..."<
alamo---
June 8, 2007 - 23:02 ET by misterbill"I started realizing how many up and coming Hispanic politicians were unashamed members of MEChA. "
This is an act of treason. They should be arrested and sentenced to the maximum. These "American" politicians are the "Fifth Column" of the 21st century.
Where’s the coward that would not dare to fight for such a land? And the parent that wouldn't be honored by the sacrifice?
Sir Walter Scott & Noel Sheppard
The Democrats think they are
June 8, 2007 - 23:09 ET by alamojbThe Democrats think they are doing the Mexicans a favor by allowing so many to come in. But even an ACLU former co-worker of mine admitted in a moment of candor that "Mexicans are coming too fast to assimilate." Unrestrained immigration is laying the seeds for a very bloody second American Civil War,with the Mexican Government aiding one side. Who knows how the Jihadists will play in all this, but it will not be pretty.
"...The Democrats love chaos. The Republicans love order and discipline and waiting your turn." Chris Matthews on "Gregory Live" as reported by Scott Whitlock 16MAY2007 blog "Matthews Rips..."<
Good thought! Gee, how will
June 8, 2007 - 23:18 ET by Scout FinchGood thought! Gee, how will the Muslim Jihadists play their cards in this event???
I can see them now, spitting into their palms and licking their lips at the chance to foment yet more unrest in America!
I don't speak for democrats
June 9, 2007 - 00:05 ET by tumblerPlease don't tell me anything the Democrats think. To me it's irrelevant; I'm a conservative Republican.
Ask yourself if it's true we're "allowing so many to come in." Of course we don't ALLOW what the extreme right insists we're "allowing." What a suggestion ! The problem is and will keep on being those who do not WAIT anyway, for anybody to allow them in. To say WE are allowing it is stupid. We haven't been able to bar them. Mostly on account of our own American ranchers & farmers who hire them in the hundreds. By thousands of hotels and motels and eating establishments who give them jobs at low wages. --This has little to do with US.
And don't say we have "unrestrained immigration." We have illegal entrants on the border. They cannot be restrained because they know all the tricks. It's been going on since the 1930's. Old Hat for the veteran traffickers. We TRY restraining them. It never works simply because you can deport 100 after they're caught, and 80 out of the 100 just do it over again. The border patrol is catching the same guys maybe 5 times every few months. Among another 100 barely arriving.
Hiring is where the answer lies. Congress knows it, but they pander to OUR agricultural concerns. That's why everybody looks the other way. As for "bloody 2nd Civil Wars," -- that's BS. Nobody on that "side" you believe is aided by Mexico's government brings guns with them. Can you export a Civil War without arms ? Get real. "It will not be pretty." Come on ! It will NOT BE, don't conjure up these ridiculous fears. We are speaking about day laborers and housekeepers, not soldiers. Don't listen to alarmists and hate-mongers.
Eugenie...Be afraid...be very
June 9, 2007 - 00:11 ET by bigtimerEugenie...
Be afraid...be very very afraid....
Boooohahahhahaaa
BT - I need a guess
June 9, 2007 - 00:24 ET by misterbillBT - I need a guess-- if there ever was a 2nd Civil War==which side would our apologist be on???
Where’s the coward that would not dare to fight for such a land? And the parent that wouldn't be honored by the sacrifice?
Sir Walter Scott & Noel Sheppard
misterb.......Not the Constit
June 9, 2007 - 00:31 ET by bigtimermisterb...
....Not the Constitutional Patriots side.
also an idiot
June 9, 2007 - 13:01 ET by tumblerFRANKLY, the bigoted mr. boil is an idiot. I'm beginning to see that every NB regular who listens to him is an idiot in the bargain. The place is spilling out with these idiots. He's the one-eyed king here, in the land of the BLIND. If you see the wacky rhetoric he spreads like a flood in the latrine, it's always reeking with lies. Lies which nobody calls mister boil on. --Such as "our apologist. He knows absolutely I haven't been this fictitious illegal alien apologist. But has he ever ceased lying ? --No. Lies are his natural idiom.
To return to that particular lie, and its obvious stupidity, a false premise.
The premise that we could be in civil war someday with people illegally entering from Mexico is FALSE. You cannot extrapolate starting from false premises.
No illegal comes here armed and intent on war. That's a non-starter. Not even this hypothetical kind of Mexican wishes to be at war. The rabble-rousers such as MechA, La Raza et al, do not have the wherewithal nor the serious intention of "taking our country away from us." All those are non-starters. They are only protestors against a perceived RACISM in this nation for which one shouldn't even blame them. They SEE the ill-will with which most poor Mexicans and even Mexican-Americans are treated. Especially by extreme right-wingers. Some of this spite and hatred is indeed reminiscent of those old bigots we saw in Bogalusa Louisiana and Selma Alabama not so long ago.
It's apparent to anybody who is unbiased that racism is alive and well today in our country. Racism hasn't changed. It's always rooted in hatred for ethnic groups, and now it's hatred of the Mexican minority.
This doesn't mean I'm an apologist for law-breakers. Arrest them. Deport them.
I detest this double-speak. Just tell the TRUTH !
On viewing monolithically
June 9, 2007 - 06:25 ET by UnsaneI wouldn't (I for one don't) toss the baby out with the bath water and see the Hispanic population as monolithic, if I were you. I have met plenty whose attitudes towards immigration might surprise you. (They just aren't as noisy as others.)
THIRTEEN DOWN, THREE TO GO...(until the SPURS' FOURTH RING!!!)
That's right. The line is n
June 9, 2007 - 10:22 ET by dahliatraversThat's right. The line is not between races. It is between those who did it the right way and those who want to cheat; between those who want what is best for the country and those who want what is best for themselves. (Oh, hi, Senator Graham! ... Off to an early lunch with Ted? Enjoy! Don't let him drive ...)
Dahlia,With all due respect i
June 9, 2007 - 10:28 ET byDahlia,
With all due respect i must disagree, Do let Teddy drive.
Supreme Court, National Security, Borders, Fiscal Restraint, my litmus test for President.
"perhaps immigration s
June 8, 2007 - 22:10 ET by ckc1227"perhaps immigration should stop deporting people and instead drop the
illegals off by the hundreds in these "sanctuary cities" and in Ted
Kennedy's back yard."
Actually, Antarctica, or maybe the wilderness of Alaska would be a more suitable drop-off location. I wonder if that would have any effect on the number coming here? It would DEFINITELY have an effect on the numbers returning after being caught, that's for sure. Besides, polar bears got to eat, with the global warming wiping out their food supply and all.
Illegal Immigrants cause global warming. Build the wall to save the Earth. Don't we owe it to the children?
ckc...ROFLMAO!....and Ak. is
June 8, 2007 - 22:17 ET by bigtimerckc...
ROFLMAO!
....and Ak. is a mighty big big state.... cold in the winter time too...weally weally cold...no matter what Algore says.
Unfortunately, Antartica is o
June 8, 2007 - 22:27 ET by alamojbUnfortunately, Antartica is off limits to colonization because of a certain retarded Green treaty. Never mind that most of the interior is actually a dead White Desert. There is even a portion that has never been claimed by anybody. I do not believe in oppressing the alien among us, especially the first time one is caught. Seems I remember a bibical charge to the jews not to oppress the immigrants to Israel, although I do not remember all the details. But we need to enforce our borders. This is colonization, and will eventually lead to a war of succesion if the would be reconquistadors are not stopped now.
"...The Democrats love chaos. The Republicans love order and discipline and waiting your turn." Chris Matthews on "Gregory Live" as reported by Scott Whitlock 16MAY2007 blog "Matthews Rips..."<
"Unfortunately, Antart
June 9, 2007 - 00:24 ET by ckc1227"Unfortunately, Antartica is off limits to colonization because of a certain retarded Green treaty."
Sooo, you're saying we should comply with law, while the illegals in this country ignore ours? Ahh, sweet sweet irony. It tastes good
Excuse my silliness--it's late here--
June 9, 2007 - 00:31 ET by misterbillExcuse my silliness--it's late here--the reason we cannot use Antarctica is because of a treaty. The treaty is known as the "Don't eat the Yellow Snow" Treaty.
Also--placing people ther would affect the minority population--you know , it was mentioned before, the polarized bears.
Can't these people get it? Th
June 8, 2007 - 22:11 ET by colormestupidCan't these people get it? The majority of the American public just doesn't want ILLEGALS let off the hook!
Don't even their own reports state this? Well,just color me stupid than.
You are not stupid by any mea
June 8, 2007 - 22:28 ET by iveseenitallYou are not stupid by any means. But many of our "representatives" think you are. Big mistake on their part. BTW, love to see Kennedy and L. Graham getting so upset. Does my heart good.
NEVER,NEVER trust a liberal
isia...and colorme...I agree
June 8, 2007 - 22:33 ET by bigtimerisia...and colorme...
I agree with both of your posts...
My blood is still pumping by the defeat isia....you should of seen Kennedy almost begging and cryin the first time Reid called for Cloture, I posted about it somwhere as it was happening...I have never seen anything like it with the Lyin of the Senate.
Last night was the icing on the cake!
Remember how Ted Kennedy went
June 8, 2007 - 22:51 ET by dahliatraversRemember how Ted Kennedy went running to comfort the undocumenteds who were busted in the raid on the leather factory in Massachusetts? It is appalling that his loyalty is to foreign nationals (as someone else phrased it) and not to the American citizens (or legal immigrants) who voted for him, who pay taxes and FROM WHOM HE WAS DEVOLVED POWER.
Right, BT. And this is but on
June 8, 2007 - 22:58 ET by iveseenitallRight, BT. And this is but one battle of the war. They've retreated but they'll be back. Fatso and his friends will try again shortly. But their next defeat will be even sweeter.
NEVER,NEVER trust a liberal
They will be back..but so wil
June 8, 2007 - 23:19 ET by bigtimerThey will be back..but so will we.
I hope in even bigger numbers.
This is part of the reason this Paris Hilton thing all day has bothered me to no end...we have National Security matters at hand, it was defeated for now by the AMERICAN people in unison...we cannot be passive now and back down, they will try to get this done when they really think no one is paying attention...this should of been the main story today, along with all their typical debating...not Paris Hilton...I am sickened by the coverage...and the media's priorities.
....but we will always be paying attention...they will get defeated again.
I worry about our power in the House and Senate in 08...but with the scum of some we have as so called representatives now...I do not care....I will fight with all my might...my forefathers did not die for this country to be taken over by another country through our own backdoor right in our faces, while supporting them with our hard earned money.... blood sweat and tears let alone those that have died to keep this country free.
They can take their agenda and stick it up their arse as long as I am alive.
Right. All this Paris Hilton
June 9, 2007 - 00:22 ET by iveseenitallRight. All this Paris Hilton nonsense just goes to demonstrate what the media believes is truly important to most Americans. Sadly, perhaps it is. But the media and our elected officials can overplay their hands ( as can be seen by the loss of viewers of t.v.and readers of papers like the NYT). Let's hope that Americans will come through when their backs are against the wall. This last illegal immigrant episode showed some promise of that.
NEVER,NEVER trust a liberal
I know you cannot hear me but----
June 9, 2007 - 00:27 ET by misterbillI know you cannot hear me but----
"I will fight with all my might...my forefathers did not die for this country to be taken over by another country through our own backdoor right in our faces,"
clap, clap,clap, clap,clap, clap,clap, clap,clap, clap,clap, clap,clap, clap,clap, clap, clap, clap,clap, clap,clap, clap,clap, clap,
The roar of my cheers cannot be heard on the 'net--but you have earned them with your patriotism.
Where’s the coward that would not dare to fight for such a land? And the parent that wouldn't be honored by the sacrifice?
Sir Walter Scott & Noel Sheppard
Hear! Hear!Never,Never trust
June 9, 2007 - 00:37 ET by iveseenitallHear! Hear!
Never,Never trust a liberal
Thank you misterb and isia to
June 9, 2007 - 00:39 ET by bigtimerThank you misterb and isia too...
I did hear that more than you know.
So has the American people all over this country...unfortunately, the media have created visceral hatred for them more rampant than ever by foregoing this issue today....
I will never forget this.
It was awesome what this great country did yesterday.
I am so proud of each of us that fought the only we could for now...this is not going to end here.
It was great to see some sena
June 9, 2007 - 01:08 ET by well99It was great to see some senators actually listen to their folks back home.I know alot of the anti worker Dems are crying because it didnt pass.Cool!I am tired of hearing about illegals just working in the fields and such.That is BS.They work construction,processing plants which if your a working stiff used to be good wages.Those Elites like Gibson and Stepinginit will never understand that not all folks want mercedes and million dollar homes.Just a decent wage and a nice home with chance to live a good life works for alot of folks.
Anyhow until they really crack down on buisness's for hiring illegals we will keep getting illegals.That and the goverment needs to get their collective heads out of rectal defilade and start doing their job by enforceing the law.
Yea, I was delighted to see b
June 9, 2007 - 08:33 ET by general companyYea, I was delighted to see both of our Senators vote against it, Vitter (R) is a staunch allies, but even Mary Landrieu (D) helped out as well. I have called and wrote them both thanking them, and asking them to support current immigration laws and extra boarder patrols
Stephanopoluos' assertion t
June 9, 2007 - 11:33 ET by mvfreemanStephanopoluos' assertion that a majority of americans supported the idea as outlined is pure B.S.
All the talk shows here in Houston had people in an uproar because an amendment floated by senator Cornyn that would deny felons and criminals the right to be here was shot down. The immigration bill as is would have let those people be eligible along with everybody else. That is what had people calling their representatives.
Funny how they didn't feel the need to mention that.
dear mr freeman
June 9, 2007 - 13:13 ET by tumblerI dislike Stephanopoulos. Very much.
He's mistaken if he claims a majority of Americans were backing that faulty bill just rejected.
But if he means a majority of Americans favor doing something to help illegal immigrants attain citizenship under some strict condition, as well as the strengthening of our southern border, he's correct. The majority of our citizens do NOT want 12 million families doomed to depart this country in humiliation. They want to HELP, under conditions that favor legal citizenship. It's a minority of our citizens who remains determined to slam the door on them and erect a fence at our border. Treating poor Mexicans as if they were mere cattle. They have been struck blind to human charity and brotherhood, by hatred.
I agree the bill was a farce.
June 9, 2007 - 13:41 ET by well99I agree the bill was a farce.The anti worker Dems and Chamber of Commerce Reps wanted this bill for votes and cheap labor.As far as most Americans not wanting a fence I disagree.The US has the right to stop illegals.I dont know the majority of Americans but even on forums at MSNBC the majority are for the fence being built.Also laws that are in the books should be enforced.I not talking about the pundits favorite phrase "Drag out of their homes" but thru attrition.Employers are the key.They should be fined big time and get stiff jail sentences.Take their personal assets and use them to pay for cost of the free medical that illegals have used.
As far as illegals I dont care which country you come from.It doesnt matter if you overstay your visas,catch a boat, or come across one of our borders.It is illegal and you shouldnt be rewarded for it.
we'll see a tighter bill
June 9, 2007 - 13:53 ET by tumblerA bill is coming much more amenable or compatible to both sides. It'll be enacted. It MIGHT effect something lasting and beneficial, both to our country and to the illegals (of today) who go the extra mile, commit themselves and actually arrive at full citizenship. It's going to happen.
Yet, somewhere there'll still be some illegals taking their chances. When they're arrested and do some time in a state prison, they'll be sent home. After that they'll stay put. What has kept them coming obdurately is success. They've found ways to beat the system. A fence won't do it; LACK of success will teach them.
A fence will slow them down.Y
June 9, 2007 - 14:28 ET by well99A fence will slow them down.Yes we need more border agents and boots on the ground.As far as putting them in the state pen.If they commit crimes beside crossing the border or overstaying their visas yes.I think all these closed bases could be used to house them for a time.Better that then putting them in the pen.That is those guilty of crossing the border illegally that havent committed crimes here or in their home country.
Buisness is the key.Until they are made to pay for hiring illegals then it wont stop.The goverment needs to come down hard on them.Actually Clinton nailed them more than GW.
The majority of our citizens
June 9, 2007 - 14:08 ET by liberal_bug_zapperThe majority of our citizens do NOT want 12 million families doomed to depart this country in humiliation. ~ Tumbler
Why yes Tumbler... we do actually. We don't appreciate criminals who care nothing for our laws. So yes, we want those illegals to leave... and they can either do it peacefully.... or at the point of a gun, because that is what it is going to come to. There will be no amnesty. There will be no leniency. We will make them leave. And when I say we, I mean that we the people are fed up with a minority of losers like you lying about the illegals as they steal our families livelihoods. We are tired of you who belong to La Raza telling us what we must do in our country. If you want to fight the war of 1846 again... bring it on... but just be sure... you will lose.
Aside from that anti-illegal immigrant rhetoric. I welcome those who wish to come to my country above board and who do so legally and with the full intention of assimilating into our culture. They, whomever they be, are welcome. But those who sneak in under the cover of night, who break our laws and flood our country with worthless dregs of society... they are not welcome and will be driven from our country like the plague of rats they are.
Teddy Roosevelt said;
Anyone who follows that creed... and comes here in broad daylight with full knowledge of our government and in full compliance with our laws will be welcomed with open arms by me... be they Mexican, Iranian, Chinese, Australian or even French. Of course, that means that every single Mexican carrying the Mexican flag in those protests is NOT welcome. They can get the hell out of my country. And let me make this clear Tumbler.... you come here illegally... and your advocate is La Raza or Aztlan and you instantly become my sworn enemy and you push us to a true battle, not of words, but worse.
____________________________________________________
"We can only reason from what is; we can reason on actualities, but not on possibilities." ~ Thomas Paine
12 million families doomed to
June 9, 2007 - 14:20 ET by12 million families doomed to depart this country
Eugene, you know that illegals send Billions of dollars HOME to their families, thus it is not families leaving but families being reunited! Why do you misrepresent this?
Supreme Court, National Security, Borders, Fiscal Restraint, my litmus test for President.
let's not argue
June 9, 2007 - 14:35 ET by tumblerdear botg,
I chose my words carefully enough. They contain no mystery or code. Why quibble ?
If a person in our country works honestly for his wages, and wishes to mail his --let's say relative, a portion, be it to Mexico, China, or anyplace; he has every right to do it. This is a free country and it's rightfully his money. I'm not aware that we have a duty or need, to deport 12 million people who are established and self-supporting, just because they bug us. We're better than that.
I was going to post 'nice dod
June 9, 2007 - 14:45 ET byI was going to post 'nice dodge' but we both know it was a poor attempt to avoid the truth. You say sending families home when you know the families are not here and that is why the money is sent HOME.
Supreme Court, National Security, Borders, Fiscal Restraint, my litmus test for President.
ok, botg;
June 9, 2007 - 14:59 ET by tumblerI see where you're coming from. I suspect then, you really take no notice of the 12 millions here in conventional, family-circle homes. You see all illegal aliens as loners and vagabonds. Now I'm going to disabuse and disillusion you:
I'd cautiously estimate that from those 12 millions, about 5 million live in barrios as families. They either come here and marry into a community and raise children; or once settled in a paying job, send for the wife & kids. You didn't know that ? Let me say that yes; some live on this side, and send money orders back to a wife and kids somewhere in Mexico. I've been friends with one or two guys who did that. Actually, one was an "anchor baby" himself, going back to the 1930s. He was born in Colorado, then later raised in Mexico. So he could enter legally and work. He mailed money to his wife in Mexico while living here temporarily. Many more like him live here illegally & also send home their wages. They keep only enough for gasoline, food and a few essentials. The rest HOME. Then after a few years they RETURN to Mexico permanently. You never knew THAT, either, but it's so.
I'd guess maybe of our illegal 12 million, around 3 million won't remain in the U.S. at all. They get homesick. They're just human beings like you & me. And, please don't cry about BILLIONS going over to Mexico. They earn that money. Worry about what YOU earn.
Eugene,I've lived in San Dieg
June 9, 2007 - 15:18 ET byEugene,
I've lived in San Diego for 30 years i understand the living conditions and that there is not a monolithic set condition of life. You tell me nothing new, i was disputing YOUR contention that 12 million familias would be uprooted.
Bottom line we need reform so people can enter legally (and safely) no mas coyotes. No more people having to deal with drug-cartels to seek a better life. But no reform can possibly be regulated until the current law is enforced. If we can not regulate the border there is no reason for people to abide regulations.
Supreme Court, National Security, Borders, Fiscal Restraint, my litmus test for President.
no monolithic conditions
June 9, 2007 - 15:56 ET by tumblerOf course. neither is there any "bottom line." You suggest what everybody here does, bringing an end to all the problems.
Meanwhile you dismiss out of hand other peoples' own problems. Yes, the uprooting of millions. Not so important as abiding regulations ? I beg to differ. People are important. Bottom line means the total cost.
You're willing I think, to absorb the bottom line of setting up physical barricades and patrolling a thousand miles of demarcation line. It's outrageously wasteful spending. And does it all lead to an end of problems ? That only happens in novels or science fiction films. They finally melt down the Terminator. In real life you only ADD to real peoples' suffering and pain. Our Lord asked a rhetorical question in one passage of scripture:
"When the Son of Man returns will He find charity in the world ?" The answer is NO. He'll find fools and devils living side by side. But they'll own a piece of property. And because they're devils, they'll PUSH everyone off their patch of ground.
That holds no promise of ending our problems.
.
Bottom line as used in my com
June 9, 2007 - 16:11 ET byBottom line as used in my comment did not deal with money and you know it.
I'd say start with the companies that have the most Social Security numbers that don't match. Run the sweeps there, anyone with a bogus SSI # is checked and deported if here illegally. The company is investigated and fined per incident if found to be complicite. No racial component as the investigation is done solely on the basis of KNOWN illegal activity. The fines can self-fund the enforcement. And do it seriously no less than one sweep per state per week. It would make people aware of the need to follow the law and employers aware of the same. I believe it would quickly erode the supply of jobs and thus the demand for and motivation of people coming here illegally
At the same time if President Bush does not enforce existing law it's all for naught
Supreme Court, National Security, Borders, Fiscal Restraint, my litmus test for President.
botom line as you see it
June 9, 2007 - 16:20 ET by tumblerNegative, NO
You mean one thing: By shoo-ing off these alien people, we'll have an end to our divisions, an end to every plague and problem. But we won't. There IS no bottom line at the foot of your rainbow.
The principal remedy you have in mind is HOUNDING every illegal, forever like a pack of dogs chases after a fox. Go ahead, then. The law supports that. You can sugar coat a frog, but I won't eat it. President Bush won't eat that either. He's a man of GOOD WILL. Yet, he upholds the law. -- We don't have to move heaven and earth for a gang of malcontents on the extreme Right.
Back in 77 i remember working
June 9, 2007 - 16:29 ET byI mean what i wrote not what you project. Back in 77 i remember working with many Mexican Citizens all of whom had their green cards. The US allows MORE LEGAL immigrants every year than any other country on earth. We are almost 6 years post 911, and you just don't get it? President Bush does not cause the immigration law to be enforced.
Supreme Court, National Security, Borders, Fiscal Restraint, my litmus test for President.
Tumbler and La Raza
June 9, 2007 - 16:17 ET by Pragmatic-ManSo, Tumbler, a couple of questions, rather straighforward:
Are you a member of La Raza, and if not do you condone their activities?
Are you a member of MEChA, and if not do you condone their activities?
pragmatico hombre:
June 9, 2007 - 16:29 ET by tumbler"Are you a member of La Raza, and if not do you condone their activities?
Are you a member of MEChA, and if not do you condone their activities?"
I'm a member of the CHAVEZES, thank you. No relation to friggin Hugo or the union guy Cesar, may he RIP.
No I detest the idiots on the left. I hate opportunists who want to feast on the hopes of poor people, demagogueing them into false moves like May 1, 2006. A shameless and stupid demonstration that only aggravated every racist in our country, or irritated people of good will --Good citizens of our country.
I never have sided with rabble-rousers who preach racism. I detest all racists, white, black, young or old. Why would anyone condone those imbeciles ? I'm a loyal American, and I believe in justice for all, not hatred. Is that straightforward ? I can't say it much clearer.
clarification on Tumbler's racism
June 9, 2007 - 16:33 ET by Pragmatic-ManThank you. Just looking for clarity. Your straighforward answer is appreciated and your denunciation of racism is shallow. We all know you are a racist. You have proven it here a hundred times.
A shameless and stupid demons
June 9, 2007 - 16:38 ET by bigtimerEugene says;
A shameless and stupid demonstration that only aggravated every racist in our country, or irritated people of good will --Good citizens of our country.
I say;
No ..it woke the US citizens up everywhere...right away...it unified us for once, citizens of this country were furious and more than anything UNIFIED!
You put our great flag upside down....then fly the Mexican flag in our faces on OUR streets ....and I do not care what stripe or color you are...that is TREASONOUS!
We are not done fighting...we will not back-down.
The President and his advisers are going to hear that loud and clearer this time, since they seem to be deaf to it the first time.
You are the only racist here
June 10, 2007 - 02:27 ET by liberal_bug_zapperYou are the only racist here Tumbler. And that is proven by your libelous tirades and your lies.
We don't care about 12 million illegals. We want them gone. We want people who want to be Americans and who respect our laws.... color does not matter. When you make it about race, you prove that you are the racist.
We true conservatives make it about the law. The law does not give a shit about ripping up families and shipping them out if they are law breakers. The law is not a social playground for you liberals. And yes, if you keep playing the race card. You then become a card carrying liberal. You cannot have it both ways.
We will force Congress to enforce the laws already on the books. They will first build the wall. They will second punish with heavy fines and even jail time, any employer who employs illegal workers.
Once the easy access to jobs dries up for illegals, and the legal route becomes the more easy way... many will flood back to Mexico or wherever they came from. Those that remain will be caught and deported. I'm still pushing for the anchor baby provision in all laws be revoked and revoked for any one born in the US in the last 25 years to non-citizen parents. They'll have to apply for citizenship just like everyone else. Of course, there will be special consideration for those who have assimilated into our culture and are fluent in English and any one of them who served or now serves in our military who didn't get a dishonorable discharge will be given instant citizenship.
But we must stop the flood of illegal immigrants. We must control our borders or our country will be lost.
We want people to respect our laws and respect our culture. Not spit on it and shun it like most illegals do today.
____________________________________________________
"We can only reason from what is; we can reason on actualities, but not on possibilities." ~ Thomas Paine
Anyone who honestly believe
June 9, 2007 - 18:27 ET by mvfreemanAnyone who honestly believes that all these millions of illegals aliens are going to be rounded up and deported is going to be holding their breath a long time. At this point the answer is to keep more from coming in.
Yes, mvfreeman
June 9, 2007 - 18:44 ET by tumblerI have to agree with you on that. A great mountain is now screaming, grunting, heaving with birth-pains amidst these idiots on the right-wing fringe. It shall rest at last, when it gives birth to a mouse. Ho-hum.
I do NOT agree with pragmatic man; he lies if he says I'm a racist. Nor with bt; a known blowhard whose best day is when she can express hatred non-stop for any number of people, posts or ideas that fail to mesh with her brand of American. If there's one bigot in this thread, it's her. And, does she ever shut up ? She'll still be bloviating when they pound the dirt over her casket. Poor lady, she's obsessed.
Prag a liar? I think not.
June 9, 2007 - 18:56 ET by Pragmatic-ManTumbler the Racist, has a ring to it doesn't it? A person would not have to look far into your posts to see the racism. I only speak from what you have revealed in your racist postings.
And regarding the right-wing fringe... polls show that the right-wing fringe that does not want the illegal immigrants to be granted shamnesty is 3 out of 4 Americans. Not conservatives, not Republicans, not Dittoheads, but Americans. Pretty big fringe element there, Mr. Racist.
Yeah; he lies.
June 9, 2007 - 19:10 ET by tumblerOf course prag bag lies. No offense intended; there's a LOT of other liars taking up space here lately. He calls others racists on account of his anger. I call some people (not all) racists because of their attitude against an ethnic minority, not as a personal matter. He has an axe to grind; but it can't hurt me. Until he proves I'm a racist. Let him try.
P.S. You are part of a lunatic fringe, pm, both parties are insane at their fringes. We see our own fringe inciting hatred here every day. When's the last time YOU, for instance, gave us faith, hope and charity ? You don't know HOW. But you can sling mud.
only you, Tumbler
June 9, 2007 - 19:21 ET by Pragmatic-Man<offense intended>
Tumbler, only you get the racist tag from me. Well earned, I say. Put that button on, dude, be proud! And as for proof, we at NB will only have to sit back and watch your racist show.
</offense intended>
since when, Tumbler?
June 9, 2007 - 19:29 ET by Pragmatic-ManSince when is an ethnic minority being targeted by me? What is ethnic about being a felon? Or did I misstate and lump all mexicans and hispanics into a group to be targeted? If I did, then I solemly retract such a comment and apologize profusely.
But... I didn't target mexicans or hispanics, or any other minority group, unless you classify felons as a minority group. TUMBLER, it is ALL ABOUT THE ILLEGALS!!! Get it? Yes, you do. And while you are getting it, then explain to me how I can be racist against felons? And then tell me why I should be in support of people who want to commit felonies against my country, your country?
Any answers to these questions?
Tumbler cannot get it through
June 10, 2007 - 02:39 ET by liberal_bug_zapperTumbler cannot get it through his thick skull because he is a traitor. Anyone who proudly flies the Mexican flag or supports others to do the same and not have to assimilate or even speak English is a traitor to his flag and a traitor to his country.
Your grandfather who fought for this country Tumbler should be ashamed of the scumbag you have become and the anti-American tripe you now are.
The words below by Theodore Roosevelt are my thoughts about the issue.... you should read them and understand the implications of anything other than full assimilation into our culture.
If you want a Latino culture... then go to Mexico or El Salvador or Guatemala or anywhere else where these cultures thrive. It's ok to bring parts... but it is not ok to transplant the whole thing and refuse our culture in the process. If you believe that is a good thing, you have become my enemy and this is one of those things that we will not quietly accept. There is a reason for the First Amendment, and we Americans may have to do what is right for the preservation of our culture.
____________________________________________________
"In the first place we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the man's becoming in very fact an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag, and this excludes the red flag, which symbolizes all wars against liberty and civilization, just as much as it excludes any foreign flag of a nation to which we are hostile...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people." ~ Theodore Roosevelt 1907
The posts you have made in
June 9, 2007 - 19:02 ET by mvfreemanHey Tumbler,
The posts you have made in this thread seem pretty reasoned to me. And for somebody to lump you in with a certain goup (the protesters) just because you are the same ethnicity is pretty stupid.
I am fairly conservative in my politics but I'm definitely not a lock-step republican.
lumping with protestors
June 9, 2007 - 19:08 ET by Pragmatic-Manmv, the lumping is done not from ethnicity. It is because Tumbler the Racist has admitted on this site to aiding and abetting the felonious acts of illegal immigrants, proud of himself for helping out his fellow illegal mexicans to cross the border and hide in our country. He sides with them repeatedly, and defends their actions against this country.
let's see some evidence
June 9, 2007 - 19:21 ET by tumblerOK, prag bag,
Produce some evidence.
"Tumbler the Racist has admitted on this site to aiding and abetting the felonious acts of illegal immigrants, proud of himself for helping out his fellow illegal mexicans to cross the border and hide in our country."
Funny; though these charges are totally false, even if they were true, nothing in that list of lies points to being a racist. And I never aided or helped anybody cross illegally. Nor have I ever associated with a single felon.
If I defend, it isn't against our laws I defend them. It's against liars and hate-peddlers. Against bigots who spread hatred and openly use racist slurs. I've always supported our immigration statutes. I just happen to think a fence is useless and demeaning to the people of Mexico. I have a right to that opinion.
Today I marvel at the gall of this liar who says: [Tumbler] aiding and abetting the felonious acts of illegal immigrants, proud of himself for helping out his fellow illegal mexicans to cross the border and hide in our country," --not only false, but insane. I have NOTHING to be ashamed of; and I always tell the truth. OTOH, here we see a flagrant liar allowing himself to slander a fellow-American. Is this or isn't it a sign of the lunatic right-wing fringe ?
Tumbler, it's a blog dude
June 9, 2007 - 19:39 ET by Pragmatic-ManTumbler, it's a blog, dude. Not like I have to put out subpoenas or exercise discovery to collect evidence. But it was in posts weeks ago between the two of us, when you said you helped out illegals coming into the country, and then you also said that you had your vehicle (a van, I think) stolen by some illegals.
Look, you are a trolling racist who hits this site. Anyone who hangs out here for very long will see your racist rants.
What is interesting is that on this issue you put everyone who wants to close the border and enforce immigration laws as right wing fringe. This alone points to your unbridled support of illegal immigrants.
So own your arguments and comments. Either be for or against illegal immigrants. Either tell us you support illegal aliens (as you repeatedly do) or call yourself a conservative Republican and call for closed borders and enforced immigration laws.
And call me a liar all you want. We all know better.
so sorry, prag bag
June 9, 2007 - 19:48 ET by tumblerI hope it's all off your chest now. You'll be nice now and stop the lies, won't you ? I know this was only a symptom of your illness we have seen above. I always say; don't hurt a mental defective. He's unable to connect with reality; be it good or bad. To some lunatics, bad things seem good. And good girls get killed by some poor guy who's out of his mind. He thinks ALL girls are bad.
Shjt happens, Man ! If Praggo is off his nut, I must forgive. If he wants all reason left by the wayside, carry him back to where he needs no reason at all. The mental ward. Ciao, Napoleon, sleep a while.
Tumbler insinuated murder
June 9, 2007 - 19:55 ET by Pragmatic-ManTumbler, are you insinuating that I kill good girls?
Where did this come from? What part of left field are you coming from? This gets pushed to the editors, no doubt. Watch your posts, Tumbler. Don't think you can insinuate me as a murderer and I will let it go unanswered.
NB editors, please take note of the previous post by Tumbler, insinuating me as a murderer of "good girls". This is outrageous, and deserves to be answered by staff.
prag man is shocked !
June 9, 2007 - 22:17 ET by tumbler"Tumbler, are you insinuating that I kill good girls?
Where did this come from? What part of left field are you coming from? This gets pushed to the editors, no doubt." Wow; he's in shock ! Get him a doctor !
NO, prags, not a killer. I insinuated only that you've apparently lost your marbles. I think you're a lunatic from our extreme right's outer fringe. I said it and I meant it. You act like somebody out of his mind. Now, quit before they see you for what you are.
Tumbler, you've been warned
June 9, 2007 - 22:25 ET by Pragmatic-ManTumbler, you've been warned. I turned this over to the NB staff, and have nothing more to say. Please direct any other concerns regarding this thread to the editors.
Tumbler
June 9, 2007 - 20:22 ET by Noel SheppardT,
This is warning number two in different threads. You're rather over the top tonight. I think you ought to re-read what you've been posting here, and recognize how far you're going with fellow NBers.
Please tone it down. Pretty Please? With sugar on top. ns
Will you assure me ?
June 9, 2007 - 22:12 ET by tumblerNoel:
Please assure us, me-- that in fact you've read through this thread. Tell me if you can, why you choose to warn me; but don't care if the others slander me and call me a representative of La Raza, a troll, an apologist for illegals, and the list of calumnies goes on-- ? Aren't all of those gratuitous slurs, and deliberate baiting, of one who defends our nation's good people, the President, our conservative causes, and the integrity of this site's founder and his editorial staff; and aren't they a concerted ad hominem attack to which you turn a blind eye ?
Unless in fact you didn't read very much of this thread. What you don't KNOW, you can't judge, can you? You wouldn'y KNOW then, the extent to which I'm patient and long-suffering for the sake of truth, while holding others to NewsBusters, Mr. Bozell's, and the masthead's high standards ? --I don't explode in anyone's face and brand him a racist. I'll say it seriously and calmly, only if I've literally SEE the racial slurs or lies.
Here a man falsely says I've helped felonious illegals to cross our border and find hiding places ! Out of the clear blue sky ! Not to mention (for some odd reason) that I'm a racist. I can merely answer with something innocuous: He's a nutball.
It never occurs to you, I'm innocent of such a heinous list of crimes ? That the person speaks a lie; like when Roger the Scrubber told our forum my wife was a whore in his employ ? THREE TIMES, and not ONE NB regular felt he deserved a rebuke ? Not even the sanctimonious ones like our loving "bigtimer ?" They gave Roger a free, total pass ! And, it didn't seem as if any editor worried about Tumbler, either. It just depends then, on whose ox is gored ?
BUT IT'S I now; Moi, that's "over-the-top," answering a flagrant liar. And for merely putting up a resistance all day WITHOUT recourse to swearing, lying, or calling on YOUR help ? I actually thought you could be impartial. Please, SAVE the sugar on top, if you're here to patronize somebody who has never told a lie in these quarters. Certainly I often resort to scorn and reductio ad absurdum, or ad hominems without any profanity. In response to what ?
For instance last night, one person who is all over this site, said to ME, a Christian and AMERICAN citizen, "PHUCK YOU, Tumbler !" She hasn't been called over-the-top, or even told to quit it. And I have the grace NOT to mention her name ! I simply don't work up an anger; it's not my way !
Please say it's NOT because you're listening to liars without even reading these exchanges. For my part, I shall take your reproof deadly serious and act accordingly. BUT PLEASE, --don't fall down on the job, Noel. Treat my response to you as the word of an honest man. I would do it for you.
Tumbler
June 9, 2007 - 23:05 ET by Noel SheppardT,
I haven't read through the entire thread. You're correct. Moderating message boards is not my expertise, or my want in life. I'm sure you can appreciate that.
I write, T. I'm sure you've noticed that. Actually, I hope you like what I write.
That said, don't you agree there's an intensity to your comments that seems to stir the pot here? Would you agree that you've intentionally or not become a controversial figure? And that you like that role?
Am I responding to complaints? Certainly. I owe you that sincerity. That said, if you were in my shoes, how would you respond? It's Saturday night. You want me to read through 100 posts while I've got "Almost Famous" running on the DVD player? :-)
My warning was more to get you to ratchet things down a tad. Should my request apply to others? Maybe. Sure. But, the complaints are coming in about you. All I did was ask you to tone it down. As you say, others might be just as responsible. However, what I saw from your post to BT in my thread seemed excessive. You don't agree? ns
Noel,Click on Tumbler's Nam
June 9, 2007 - 23:10 ET by Free StinkerNoel,
Click on Tumbler's Name . . . Page Not Found.
--FSso is that four times now?
June 9, 2007 - 23:24 ET by Conservative Voiceso is that four times now?
I lost count.
June 9, 2007 - 23:29 ET by Free StinkerI lost count.
Bye Bye Tumbler
June 12, 2007 - 12:37 ET by florida_chadBye Bye Tumbler
Wow you just described many
June 9, 2007 - 19:39 ET by well99Wow you just described many in the goverment.. both parties.As far as aiding and abetting illegals.Look how that amendment to prevent giving z visas to criminals got shot down.Pedophiles could get one.Gang bangers all's they have to say I quit gangs and here is your z visas.Hopefully the immigration bill gets buried but you cant count on that.
As far as tumbler goes he does push the envelope.Being against illegal immigration doesnt make you a right wing extremism or racist.Being for it doesnt make you a racist either.
that's the scary part
June 9, 2007 - 19:44 ET by Pragmatic-Manwell99, that's the scary part. Tumbler is in lockstep with way too many Senators and Representatives. The attitude of the scamnesty minority is not a fringe, although it is a definite minority.
Too many are.Now that the bil
June 9, 2007 - 20:05 ET by well99Too many are.Now that the bill is shelved at least for now.I cant understand how any reasonable person could vote against the amendment which wouldnt allow giveing Z Visas to criminals.I mean that was insane.Like a gang banger all he has to do say is I quit gangs.Give me a break.This is mess and it has been a mess.The bill is a big joke.Congress thinks were too stupid to understand it.That is why they tried to push it thru.Like has been said a million times they dont enforce the laws we have now so what makes congress think that we trust them to enforce new ones.
We need to press our senators
June 10, 2007 - 02:49 ET by liberal_bug_zapperWe need to press our senators and congressmen to keep voting against it and force the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services to enforce current laws and we need to stay on top of them until they build the fence. Then... after border security is handled, we can think about modifying existing laws to better deal with the new waves of immigrants. But until then, it's a moot point... it's a dead argument and no real conservative will budge on it until those first two things are being done properly. The fence must be totally completed for us to budge. We cannot let them weasel their way out of this. And we all know they're going to try.
____________________________________________________
"We can only reason from what is; we can reason on actualities, but not on possibilities." ~ Thomas Paine
Yes. This and your comments
June 10, 2007 - 08:09 ET by dahliatraversYes. This and your comments at 03:27 am. Absolutely.
That faux conservative on NPR says we are not compassionate towards the 12m illegals. Fool. Our compassion is reserved for the millions of legal immigrants who did it right. Who wanted to come here but were conscientious and respectful enough to comply with our immigration laws (admittedly convoluted and tortoise-paced) to do so.
Those who supported the Kennedy-Bush-McCain amnesty bill. Why is your compassion not where it belongs - for our legal immigrants?
As for Charlie Gibson and all the liberals who supported this amnesty bill, you were duped. This was a scheme for some deluded politicians - including, take note, Republicans - to get votes for themselves while feeding cheap, exploited labor to certain eeeeevil corporations. If you had not been blinded by your misdirected compassion, you would not have fallen for it.
careful, mv, Tumbler bites
June 9, 2007 - 19:15 ET by Pragmatic-Manmv, be careful. A kind hand extended to Tumbler the Racist will get bitten. I started out being nice to this vile beast. But during a calm and normal posting convo with him, he bit and bit hard. So for me, once bitten, he will never get a break from me again.
my...You have been here for 3
June 9, 2007 - 19:16 ET by bigtimermy...
You have been here for 31 weeks ....is this the only thread you have read of tumblers?
I am really curious...this inquiring mind wants to know.
You know Eugene....I have nev
June 9, 2007 - 19:09 ET by bigtimerYou know Eugene....
I have never bothered to post anything about my early life here, but if you call me a racist you are a fool, you do it everywhere to everyone, you have done it on other sites you troll on, you fool some of the people some of the time, but your MO is easy to pick out anywhere to anyone who reads other blog sites...
Btw...I was raised in Southern California, my first love was a Mexican, one of many of my best friends was Mexican, I was raised with and knew more proud Mexican Americans than you ever will....I said AMERICANS...PROUD to be...that voted for Prop 167 or whatever it was when what's his name was Mayor...that won overwhelmingly...you talk out of a dark hole and you spew the same thing that the orfice eliminates.
Amnesty
June 12, 2007 - 18:16 ET by loveleboHere are the 20 loopholes of the Immigration Bill released by Republican Senator Jeff Sessions:
Loophole 1 – Legal Status (amnesty) Granted Before Enforcement
Loophole 2 – U.S. Visit Exit Not In Enforcement Trigger
Loophole 3 – Trigger Requires No More Agents, Beds, or Fencing Than Current Law
Loophole 4 -- Three Additional Years Worth of Illegal Aliens Granted Status, Treated Preferentially To Legal Filers
Loophole 5 – Completion of Background Checks Not Required For Probationary Legal Status
Loophole 6 – Some Child Molesters Are Still Eligible
Loophole 7 – Terrorism Connections Allowed, Good Moral Character Not Required
Loophole 8 – Gang Members Are Eligible
Loophole 9 – Absconders Are Eligible
Loophole 10 – Learning English Not Required For A Decade
Loophole 11 – Earned Income Tax Credit Will Cost Taxpayers Billions In Just 10 Years
Loophole 12 – Affidavits From Friends Accepted As Evidence
Loophole 13 – Taxpayer Funded Legal Counsel and Arbitration
Loophole 14 – In-State Tuition and Student Loans
Loophole 15 – Inadequacy of the Merit System (to attract higher skilled workers)
Loophole 16 – Visas For Individuals That Plan To Overstay
Loophole 17 – Chain Migration Trippled Before Being Eliminated
Loophole 18 – Back Taxes Not Required
Loophole 19 – Social Security Credits Allowed For Illegal Work Histories
Loophole 20 – Criminal Fines Not Proportional To Conduct