Bozell Column: Savaging Sarah Palin

Photo of Brent Bozell.

When MSNBC’s Chris Matthews suggested in Denver that Barack Obama earned his present elevation in American politics, unlike "showcase appointments" like Colin Powell and Condoleezza Rice, he reminded the world of the peculiarity of liberalism. John McCain’s selection of Gov. Sarah Palin as his running mate underlined it. Liberals find no joy when Republicans select women or minorities for top positions. They are all fraudulent traitors to their own apparent group interests. Conservative blacks aren’t really black. Conservative Latinos aren’t really Latino. Now, conservative women are somehow not really women.

Newsweek’s Eleanor Clift spoke for her colleagues on the Palin selection: "If the media reaction is anything, it's been literally laughter in many places...In very, very many newsrooms."

This principle – that Hell hath no fury like a liberal who’s been insulted by a conservative not sticking to white male appointments – explains why President Bush successfully placed two white men on the Supreme Court. Only picking Harriet Miers was outrageous (although her capacity for the job was clearly an issue). Bush saw how upset the Left became when Clarence Thomas was nominated. John McCain could have played safe. He chose to mix things up and pick a woman who matched his tendency to mix things up.

That decision led inexorably to a big, fat Exhibit A of media bias. The media’s treatment of Palin was nothing like their approval for Joe Biden, Obama’s running mate, the week before. The Washington Post called the Biden selection an "infusion of experience and aggressiveness," and he was "a sharp-witted and energetic foreign policy expert." There was no mention that Biden was a liberal, or that while National Journal found Obama to be the most liberal Senator in 2007, Biden came in close behind in third place.

When Palin was picked, the Post couldn’t stop pounding away on her conservatism. The lead story underlined: "The self-described 'hockey mom' brings a blue-collar conservatism and strong antiabortion views to the ticket." Another story on the front-page called her "the pro-gun, antiabortion governor of Alaska." The caption under her picture noted Palin was "a conservative with strong antiabortion views."

Next came Exhibit B. The media didn’t simply slam Gov. Palin as a conservative, they went intensely ugly and personal. CNN’s John Roberts quickly suggested she might be a crummy mother: "There's also this issue that on April 18th, she gave birth to a baby with Down's syndrome....Children with Down's syndrome require an awful lot of attention. The role of Vice President, it seems to me, would take up an awful lot of her time, and it raises the issue of how much time will she have to dedicate to her newborn child?"

On the next day, ABC's Good Morning America weekend co-anchor Bill Weir piled on with the disabled-child-neglect attack in an interview with McCain spokesman Mike DuHaime. "Adding to the brutality of a national campaign, the Palin family also has an infant with special needs. What leads you, the Senator, and the Governor to believe that one won't affect the other in the next couple of months?" When DuHaime tried to answer, Weir repeated himself: "She has an infant with special needs. Will that affect her campaigning?" Weir was accurately describing himself when he mentioned "adding to the brutality of a national campaign."

Then came the media’s heavy rush to cover the news that Palin’s 17-year-old daughter Bristol was pregnant, and would keep the baby and marry the father. Once again, ABC led the media insult machine. They called the baby a "skeleton in the closet," a strange term for an unborn child, a "bombshell" cynically timed to explode on the day Hurricane Gustav swept ashore. The story emerged in reaction to the left-wing blogsite Daily Kos circulating the incredibly disgusting and wholly inaccurate smear that Gov. Palin somehow faked her latest pregnancy to cover for her daughter’s supposed motherhood of her disabled son.

ABC and CNN also used the Bristol news to lecture the Republicans about their hypocrisy on sex education in high schools, wildly presuming Gov. Palin’s daughter didn’t know how babies were made. The agenda seemed clear: keep Palin constantly under attack, and suggest perhaps McCain should just dump her and go find someone else….for the media to brutalize.

John McCain made a bold choice in not merely picking a woman, but picking a pro-life woman courageous enough to put her motherhood where her mouth is. Now the media want him to pay dearly for it. The idea that they would lecture anyone else about rumor-mongering or "Swift-boating" ought to be laughed off the public stage.


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I truly believe this

I truly believe this behavior will backfire on the media and on Obama.  And I can't wait to see it happen.  They should be ashamed of themselves, they really should.

Shame?!?

I think that one of the things that significantly distinguishes liberals is that they are beyond shame, and proud of it!

They have so much to be ashamed of that if they allowed shame into their psyche they would be undone.

You can hope for it; but don’t expect it.

Impunitas semper ad deteriora invitat.

This is so disgusting and .......

over the top, it may spell the end of the MSM as we know it.....there is going to be a back lash.  Decent americans have had enough of this propaganda, along with the Josef Georbells Daily Kos, and Media Morons.  This crap plays on both coasts, but not with the rest of America, they have had it with the lies. 

"If a man does his best, what else is there"?

General George S. Patton Jr.

Laughing

in response to your final paragraph, people are laughing at them...more and more each day.

Give them all the rope they want...

keep up the great work NB...this is a bonanza of content for your organization.

NBTV?

Come to think of it, with all this content, you could have your own show....the unfairness is so egregious it's funny. 

Where do i send my Check for NBTV?

  This pregnancy issue is a

  This pregnancy issue is a perfect answer to why is this country so divided.  It's the bias of the media.  By favoring one side it gives that side a sense of entitlement while the side that is cheated of fair reporting is incensed.  There are almost no professional journalists left.  The sooner the old media dies the better off this country will be.  I stopped watching net news many years ago and regular Dead Tree reading more than a year ago but my wife liked to get the paper for the local news and ads however the boosting of obama has pushed even her over the edge.  We won't renew.

What you hear is fear. Fear

What you hear is fear. Fear in the leftist media and on the MSM. There is much they have invested in Obama. There is much they have overlooked and gone out of their way to avoid reporting. And now, with the nomination of Sara Palin, they voice there fear in the form of attacks. On both her and her family. Funny thing about fear. Your enemy can smell it, even through all the vitriolic.

Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!

The left in the msm of all

The left in the msm of all venues, and the rest of the talking heads of both sexes trying to destroy this woman/family with their absolute panic-mode double-standard hypocrisy filled propaganda are going to see so many women across this land of all political parties and stripes coming out and voting this ticket out of outright anger and revenge...

Pay backs are hell...and the left are going to be in for a huge surprise in my opinion.

"America isn't the problem...America is the solution." ~ Rush Limbaugh

Eleanor Clift brings zero

Eleanor Clift brings zero intelligence to any debate.

Zero intelligence would be

Zero intelligence would be an improvement! Shrill harridan Clift actually diminishes the sum of intelligence in any conversation. IMHO she ties with Susan Estrich --- She Whose Voice Mimics Nails on a Blackboard --- as the least likeable she-pundit in media (basset faced Andrea Mitchell runs distant third).

Eleanor Clift?

Clift was a secretary without a formal education when her boss decided she'd make a good reporter.

Male boss giving his unqualified secretary a promotion?

My goodness! I wonder what her colleagues thought of that back in the '30s?

Now she's passing judgement on a 16-year old girl?

Eleanor -- you need to shut up and quickly sit down!

 

Eleanor spilled the beans.

Her comment about laughter in very, very many newsrooms proved once and for all the total lack of objectivity in the msm today.  The end product is junk journalism.

Fair Play

I hereby unilaterally rename the Dems, the Abortionist Party

In scurrilously attacking Gov. Palin and her daughter, the Abortionist Party has demonstrated they are not at all interested in Choice.

The Abortionist Party's stated "right" to abortion is squarely challenged by two pregnancies that represent textbook definitions of the need for abortion on demand; teen pregnancy and impairment.

The choice of Palin fits perfectly into the real choice placed before America today, and I know I've said it before.

And the people said "Give us Barabas Obama!  Let this choice be upon us and our children!  Crucify Him (the innocents)!" 

And it is no accident Obama quoted Matthew.  "If you did it to the least of these, you have done it to Me"

God, forgive me for inserting what I see as a very clear comparison into Your Word.  I mean no disrespect.

Rocky & Bullwinkle '08

abortion

You're right of course but I think we need something other than "abortionist". How about...

Party for Premeditated Murder of Innocents

It's more descriptive because "abortion" means "choice" to some people but the children get no "choice". "Abortion" is also used by people who claim that "it's their body" but the procedure is performed on the child, NOT the mother. No mother has ever been chopped up and sucked out.

How about a new party phrase to go with that?

Kill the innocent, let the guilty go free!

New word for the dem media

The democrat media could and should be henceforth known as:

The Child Exploitation Brigade. 

Kerry got "swift boated"?

Sarah Palin got "child exploited".

It's disgusting what the media is doing, and I believe Michael Steele was right on (see Noel's most excellent vid)....it doesn't matter who wins this election, the old media is going to lose, and lose big!

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

 

Special Needs!

How about the Special Needs Party? I mean there going to need it a lot more than, I believe his name is Trig, when it is all said and done. More crocidile tears.

they're not laughing now Eleanor

The newsrooms are in full panic mode, air head. Governor Palin makes all you liberated women and metrosexual "men" look like the pale panty waists that you really are.

This mental midget will be raving about voting machines and stolen ballot boxes and hanging chads for years after Barry gets his ass kicked in November. She'll never understand why the 'laughable' Governor Palin gave the GOP ticket the push it needed to get to the Whitehouse.

The Swells are upset

I never realized what elitism REALLY meant until this Plain nomination. The swells like Clift and her upper-crust collegues are just savaging Palin relentlessly.

We now get a good idea what they really think of middle-class people like us.

bun in the oven

They called the baby a "skeleton in the closet," a strange term for an unborn child, ...

That's an interesting phrase. We've all heard "bun in the oven" but never "skeleton in the closet" in this context. It's probably just a slip up, albeit a completely appropriate one for people who desire death sentences for the innocent.

 

Pelosi Endorses Palin's Qualifications and Experience

Check-out Pelosi's interview in this months Ladies Home Journal. Bold is my emphasis. Thanks Nancy!

LHJ: Do you think we'll have to wait as long again for another potential female president?

NP: No, I don't. First of all, Hillary Clinton is still here and young enough to run again in a number of years, but there are also women in the House, in the Congress, and in the governorships. It won't be long before it won't be unusual for us to have viable, strong women candidates for President of the United States. And I take great joy in that thought

LHJ: You are a mother of five and were a homemaker for many years before entering politics. You say in your book that the skills you honed doing those things were the same ones you needed when you got to Congress. How so?

NP: Absolutely, and this is what I want women to know, so they recognize the value of their own path, their unique experience. I've been in politics a while, over 20 years in the Congress of the United States, and this is a very rough-and-tumble.... I shouldn't say 'rough,' let me say a very challenging arena to be in. But as challenging as it is, nothing is as challenging as raising a family -- nothing. That experience forced me to be disciplined, diplomatic, focused, and successful, and I brought that discipline and focus to the Congress. Also, having a family keeps you focused on the future, which is the biggest inspiration in politics. In order to do what it takes to succeed in politics, you have to be inspired by your constituents, the power of your ideas, and the fact that you speak on behalf of children and their future, whether you have children of your own or not. It makes all the difference in the world.

LHJ: Women since the dawn of time have struggled to balance their careers with their families. What advice would you give to women who are trying to achieve that very elusive balance? Do you think it's possible?

NP: Yes, I think it is, and what I tell women is, you are doing the best you can, even if it's not the best you know how. You can't control every aspect, so don't worry about not measuring up. Just know that it's the best you can do, and know that if you succeed in being a mother, you can succeed in any arena. There's nothing to compare it to. And I always say know your power. That's how I got the title for my book. Mothers have so much power. They have the power to make a difference in the lives of these little people they're raising, and the power to make a difference in the world in which they will grow up and then live. That's a key message of my book. I want women to recognize the value of their unique experience. And in Congress, I've made it my special mission to be a voice for young working women.

 

MSD... Thank you so much

MSD... Thank you so much for all of this... I have repeatedly told my other half where is the right using Pelosi as an example in the counter-attacks...it is common knowledge she had five kids and worked, most likely the msm conveniently forgets this fact..but my gawd, the msm was all in total adoration with her holding her grand-baby in her arms telling us how she can and has juggled all...blah blah blah...as the msm celebrated her Speaker of the House coronation...

I wished just once some talking heads on the right would bring this up!

"America isn't the problem...America is the solution." ~ Rush Limbaugh

Oh, but wait...they didn't

Oh, but wait...they didn't mean a Conservative woman should do that.

Her Speakerness also said to keep order in the House when things got crazy she would "use my mother of five voice."

She cashed in on being a mother and a grandmother every chance she got. And don't forget the slobbering by Charles Gibson when she was directing the opening of Congress with her grandson in her arms ...he gushed that she was "taking care of the children and the country."

 

Obermann, Mathews, Begala, Carvell and Clift

Are there any more biased and despicable reporters and commentators out there? These people can'thave any friends other than other hate filled leftists.

It is clear now that the

It is clear now that the MSM and the Obama campaign are working in concert together. Obama and Biden can claim the high road by saying that children are off-limits. To whom? That is the question I ask. Ah, the campaigns. So, the Obama campaign can tack this course and be praised by the MSM for taking the high road and being above it all.

Meanwhile, the MSM is launching with all the facetious fury of a starving pitbull with their scurrilous attacks on Palin. Central now to their theme is McCain inept in not thoroughly vetting Palin prior to this past few days revelations [Seems like ages now, since it is 24/7 on print, radio and cable and networks news.], is he weak, because he caved into pressure in not taking his first choice for VP, Joe Lieberman? [I guess this must be the MSM's first choice for VP, imagine the fun they'd have with that?]. So now, the MSM are acting as the full forced attack dogs of the Democratic Party and the Obama campaign.

Watching the cable news outlets, they're still playing the disproven rumor that Palin was an Alaskan Independent Party member. Still questioning McCain's judgement on picking Palin.

It's McCain against the world.

Why are we surpised...

...by the level of attention and scrutiny that Palin is currently undergoing? The media wants to make money. Things like teen pregnancy and ethics scandals will get coverage (whether deserved or not).

Viewers eat this stuff up. I don't see any maliciousness in the coverage, just overkill. This insane amount of attention will backfire, but for now it's getting ratings.

Furthermore, this blind love of an unknown like Palin is bordering on the insane. I have many issues with this choice. All McCain had to do was pick Romney and he would have won hands down. Now, b/c of Palin's glaring weaknesses, he's in a real gun fight. It was unnecssary and a transparent case of pandering.

Palin was clearly not vetted properly and as a result, the Republicans are now forced to backpeddle ferouciously.

There are several issues of significance that should have been examined more closely before she was selected. I see the following problems with this choice.

1) McCain only talked to her twice before choosing her. Twice? That seems a bit thin considering the importance of the decision and seemingly validates the charge that she was a simple case of political pandering.

2) She's Pro-Creationism. This is a tough stance to swallow. While not an issue to decide an election on, it does raise some red flags with regard to judgment considering Creationism has no place with legitimate science.

3) A major plus for her was her supposed opposition to the Bridge To Nowhere. This is patently false. Palin was all about the Bridge to Nowhere until 2007 when everyone found out what a joke of a project it was. At that point, she had no choice but to rescind her support or get laughed out of town on the rails. So, I'm not sure where this idea that she fought against it came from, but it's a lie.

4) She has strongly supported Ted Stevens and even supports him now while he is under indictment. He's not guilty yet, but it's not looking good for him. Granted, Obama has some terrible friends (i.e. Ayers, Rezko), but there's no reason to choose someone who has the same problem, esp. when her claim to fame is fighting the old boys network. It's just another negative angle that people can manipulate. Couple this with the story about the her sister's divorce and you're looking at a major problem for a Vice Presidential candidate.

5) She lacks experience. Mayor of a tiny town is not significant. Governor is a bit more important, but there are only 600,000 people in the state, so...The National Guard slant is clearly a stretch with regard to Foreign Policy experience. In fact, they should have never brought this up as an example.

I don't see the pregnancy thing as an issue, but the fact is, I understand why it's getting top billing. If McCain had vetted her properly, he would have known all of this and realized there was going to be tremendous scrutiny and attention.

I don't think the lack of Edwards coverage was that strange given all of the mistakes by the media in recent years. Rathergate, et al. has neutered the nets. They won't print anything until they are 100% certain, ESPECIALLY when the potential for a libel suit is so high in our litigious society. They covered Edwards once it was confirmed.

Palin is the VP nom, Edwards is not. The media's obsession is not surprising, nor do I find it that offensive.

5) She lacks experience.

5) She lacks experience. Mayor of a tiny town is not significant. Governor is a bit more important, but there are only 600,000 people in the state, so...The National Guard slant is clearly a stretch with regard to Foreign Policy experience.

So both Barack O and Joe B both fail this test.  Neither have had executive experience.

Goodbye Obama, Goodbye Obama, Goodbye Obama its time to say goodbye....

Of course Obama lacks

Of course Obama lacks experience to be president, but I don't see how that validates her lack of experience.

This executive experience that everyone is stressing is completely questionable. The mayor position is not impressive. Governor is better but it was Alaska. 600,000 people. So she can balance a budget and do some simple math.

Even if you think this is great executive experience, it's immaterial. She is completely devoid of any other relevant experience.

The possibility that she could be the Commander in Chief is terrifying.

The 'well they're guy is weak too' approach makes no sense. There were several other obvious candidates who would have made a stronger ticket. This was a pander. This was entertainment.

It is an issue of

It is an issue of qualitative comparison versus lack of comparison.

Best example I have is that of a main battle tank.

If  your side has a tank and the enemy does not, it does not have to be a very good tank to make a decisive difference in your favor.

See?

In this case, McCain is a M-4 and Palin is an M-3.

But Biden and Obama are guys on foot armed with bows and arrows running across the plains in an attempt to get away.

Capiche?

No not capiche? McCain's

No not capiche?

McCain's best choice was not an M-3, it was an M-4. Why would you choose the lower level tank, when you have the better model? (i.e. Romney)

Also, the goal isn't simply to win the election. It's to elect the best possible candidates in case they DO win.

Because

The paint scheme on Romney's tank was old and the enemy expected it. 

Palin's tank, while not quite as heavily armed, is capable of sneaking right past the enemy.

Now do you capiche?

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

 

No, still makes no

No, still makes no sense.

Sounds to me like you simply care about winning and not what the candidates will do once they get in the White House.

Romney wasn't old at all. People were afraid of the Mormon thing for no reason. That's his only possible weakness.

Again, I'm not anti-Palin, I just don't feel comfortable with her as a candidate and I think it was a PR move instead of a decision based on the best interests of our country.

  And you think biden was

  And you think biden was chosen without consideration of politics but only because he is 'good for the country'?  Old joe has run for president several times and every time the country said 'no!'.  It was never even 'maybe'.

No, sadly for the Dems, I

No, sadly for the Dems, I think Biden was their best choice.

Who else did they have to go with Obama, a guy with little experience?

Hillary maybe, but they ran her out of town a long time ago in the primaries.

Gingerman

Evolution is a theory. Many of the "proofs" have been proven to be hoaxes. No archeological find has ever been contradictory to the bible record. If you want to claim monkeys as your closest relatives, be my guest.

Your statement is

Your statement is ludicrous.  I'm sorry but there is ample evidence to support the theory of evolution, to deny that is so strange in my mind.  But you and several other people are into it, so again, we'll just have to disagree, I don't want to get off topic.

This is not a creationism thread. Let's not derail. The fact of the matter, regardless of what YOU believe, most voters don't support Creationism, SO it's a major weakness.

 

Wow.

Oh, joy, non-debate tactics in action.  Not only do we see the generic, broad-brush, and unsupported "What you're saying is stupid," we get the classic "There's tons of evidence, I'm just not gonna give any," the AGW standby "Deniers are just weird," and "I don't want to talk about this anymore, even though I brought it up."  Ooh, we even get some not-quite-statistics in "most voters don't support Creationism" and "Appealing to any group other than 'most voters' is weakness".  I suppose I'll deal with each in order.

First up:  "Your statement is ludicrous."  Hmm... which one?  "Evolution is a theory."  Is that one ludicrous?  "Many of the "proofs" have been proven to be
hoaxes.
"  How about that one?  "No archeological find has ever been contradictory to the bible
record.
"  This one?  "If you want to claim monkeys as your closest relatives, be my
guest.
"  Well, this one is more a joke than a statement, but maybe you find jokes aimed at your beliefs (yes, evolutionary theory is a belief, just like every other theory) to be ludicrous.

Next:  "I'm sorry but there is ample evidence to support the theory of evolution, to deny that is so strange in my mind."  To clarify, the discussion is over macro-evolution, the generation of new species, not micro-evolution, changes over time within a species.  That said, what is this "ample evidence" in support of macro-evolution?  I've seen plenty of vague or circumstantial evidence that suggests is might be true, but nothing particularly strong.  Feel free to enlighten me.  As for your mind, it is, like all of them, quite capable of making mistakes.  Something being "so strange" to you is hardly proof that it's incorrect.

"The fact of the matter, regardless of what YOU believe, most voters don't support Creationism".  Something's missing...  what could it be?  Oh, that's right!  Support!  To wit:  A graph, from a study.  If you consider ID to be neither evolution nor strict creationism, notice that the responses for strict creationism and dumb evolution are approximately equal in regards to humanity and separated by less than 10% in regards to life in general.  If you want to include the belief that things "evolved through guidance by a supreme being" as simply being evolution, then sure, believers of evolution appear to be the majority.  On the other hand, they get demonized by both sides, so I doubt they'll care much about which side the candidates are on when it comes voting time.  To make my own bias known, I fall into that last category in a strict sense, though I've expressed that the exact manner in which our existence came to be is considerably less important than what we do with it.

"SO it's a major weakness."  Putting up someone who will appeal to the hard-right folks that McCain doesn't have a prayer with is a major weakness?  McCain's in favor of evolution (dumb or directed is up for debate), so having a VP pick who happens to be part of the one side he stays away from seems smart.  He gets some degree of appeal to all sides instead of pushing at least one of them strongly away.  In my opinion, evolution/creationism/ID is one of those topics that never helps a candidate, only hurts.  Tell an evolutionist that a candidate supports evolution and you'll probably get something along the lines of "Well, of course he should."  Tell them the opposite and you'll likely get a vehement response about how he's a Neanderthal knuckle-dragger who wants to send us back to the dark ages. Pretty big distinction, and the responses follow the same pattern with creationists, and indignant "I should think so" vs. "He wants to bring EVILution into our homes and infect our children with his satanic heresy!"  In short, having one person for each of the major sides will prevent a lot of the negative impacts of taking one side, while polarizing the campaign really doesn't generate much more support.

That's odd, I thought we were going off-topic, but here I am back discussing whether Palin helps or hurts McCain... Funny, that.

www.rhjunior.com Great comics with a hefty dose of Christian and anti-nutjob goodness.

"With your mind as high as Mt. Fuji you can see all things clearly. And you can see all the forces that shape events; not just the things near to you." -Miyamoto Musashi

Riiight

Makes no sense to you?

Okay, I'll try this again.

The Obama machine expected and anticpated Romney.  All of their oppo research had been done.  (Hence my reference to the old paint scheme in BD's battle tank metaphor). 

Further, (and I'm being nice to you tonight, since you seem to have turned over a new leaf since the last time you posted here), John McCain is not comfortable with Mitt Romney....who happens to have been my choice for #2 as well.   Mitt, Rudy, and Huck (Fred too) have been real troopers in supporting McCain.  But it's the old Maverick's nature that he wants a second-in-command whom he trusts.  And none of his former competitors fit that bill.

Sarah Palin is a great choice.  She revitalizes the base (us...the conservatives).   McCain would have lost without us.  I am probably one of the few on this board who openly said I'd vote for McCain when he got the nod....everyone else was horribly ambivilent.  Not so now.

Sarah Palin will be a fabulous V.P.

And an even better President, in four or eight years (take that! Hillary).

 

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

 

I appreciate your serious

I appreciate your serious answer, but I still disagree with your assessment of the situation.

The key is not to win. The key is to be equipped when you do win. You need to have faith in the best candidates, not the candidates that you simply think will win. That is bad decision making.

Romney was the best clearly. Palin will is a horrible choice and clearly nothing more than a stunt. It's a slap to the face of long time Repbulicans.

So you may disagree, but we'll just have to live with different opinions.   

Ginger, I care not whether you agree

I've challenged you to prove several points, which you have failed to do.

So back to basics.  We'll start with your first assertion.

Prove, if you can, that Sarah Palin was insufficiently vetted.  This will require you provide us with exactly how she was vetted, furthermore, you might want to compare and contrast that with, oh, say, Joe Biden's vetting process.  Or Dan Quayle's.

No, we don't have to live with different opinions.  You came to argue and debate a point, you started with a fallacious premise, so either cave in now, admit you were wrong, or try to prove you were correct.

No other response from you is desired, unless you care to meet the challenge. 

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

 

Blonde, I have clearly

Blonde, I have clearly explained why I think she was not vetted properly. Pretending that I haven't is not a debate.

Read my original post. I've already shown you the factual basis of my Bridge to Nowhere claim (you asked for one example). The McCain camp clearly didn't know the full story about her, which leads me to believe she wasn't properly vetted.

I'm sorry but I don't know what else to tell you. I've been clear as day.

JR

You're being spanked by a pro. I don't just pom-pom for anyone.

 

* * * SOCKS THE CAT '08 * * *
For REAL Change

MrShy, this cheerleading is

MrShy, this cheerleading is cute and all, but I'm not sure I get it. Everything I laid out in my original post is true.

Can you even refute one of my points?

Ginger,

Blonde, I have clearly explained why I think she was not vetted properly.

Sorry, fella.  That doesn't cut the debate mustard.

Just because "you think" doesn't make it so.

The challenge to you (which you started, BTW) was to PROVE that Sarah Palin was improperly vetted.

Answer, with facts (PROOF), or admit you've lost.

Loser.

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

 

The problem for you, Gingerboy, is that no one here....

...gives a rat's left gonad what you thing about anything.

Now, please spare us any further BS and go back and report to Markos Mussolini over at DKos that you have failed miserably in your mission.

After all, as a liberal, failure should be second-nature to you by now.

If you are sufficiently skilled in your oral presentation, perhaps your stay in the cooler will only be thirty days.   :-O

I want to be me again.

-Dave.

TGm, ahh,

bein equipped with the best candidates doesn't do a bit of good if you LOSE the election.  The whole idea is to WIN. Seriously, do you really believe that WINNING isn't the primary/sole focus of any politician in an election? I mean, did Mitt spend $42.3 of his own money tryin to lose? Come on. 

Mac picked Palin cause he and his camp figured that she gave them the best chance to WIN. Every other consideration is a distant second to that fact.

 

 

If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love youBut if you really make them think, they'll hate you.

Don Marquis 1878-1937

The key is not to win. The

The key is not to win. The key is to be equipped when you do win.

Wrong.  Unless you win, there is no point to perfection.

Having a stable of perfect individual candidates that are unelectable is folly.

McCains best choice would

McCains best choice would be an M-1, but one is not available nor needed when the opposition is on foot with no AT weapons.

Also, the goal isn't simply to win the election. It's to elect the best possible candidates in case they DO win.

Perfect is the enemy of good enough, it is also the enemy of victory.

1) She IS Governor of

1) She IS Governor of Alaska ... 6 people or 600,000 she is the Governor. As such she gains that amount of executive xp.

2) She has been tapped for Vice President. Let me repeat, Vice President. Even if McCain only lasts only a week in office before succombing to a heart attack, that is a week more hands on xp Palin will get to prepare for the job than Obama will have if elected. 

The important point is that due to her xp she is correctly positioned on the ticket.

Yeah, I still don't see the

Yeah, I still don't see the XP. That's the problem. Repeating it doesn't make it true.

Romney was the GOVERNOR of Massachussetts (a serious state), a CEO, and helped to found a private equity firm.

I can't figure out why everyone is so jazzed up with this choice when we had an obvious winner in Romney.

You just said it ...

You just said it ... "everyone is jazzed up"

I will admit she really wasnt my first choice, I really was hoping for Romney. But givin a day or two to let it sink in I am on board now precisly for the reason that she is new, she has shaken things up in Alaska and I can guarantee will shake D.C. up. If you really wanted a blue collar "Everyman" candidate I really dont think you could have picked a better woman. Romney would have been a good pick, but that pick would have played right into the "more of the same" banner they are still trying to play. Also, do you think that pick would have grabbed the headlines as fast or sucked the wind out of Obama.

Calculated choice? of course... good choice? I think so as well.

Snappy, clearly it's the

Snappy, clearly it's the flashy choice. Romney would have been under heavy attack, however, all of it would have been predictable, properly prepared for, and ultimately, dealt with appropriately.

There were no surprises with Romney, but there was heavy duty experience in many arenas.

Grabbing headlines is great, but once the hype dies down and people really start to think, they will see that she was a terrible choice.

I'm insulted that they've given up the prospect of a strong administration for an obvious gambit to win the election. They had no faith in their message.

Romney is NOT on the ticket!!!

Romney would have been my first choice (and I voted for him in the primaries), but he didn't get the nod.  Get over it.

The way I see it, the way you harp on Romney, you are just throwing a temper tantrum because Palin got the nod and Romney didn't. 

Whoever casts a vote for Obama-Biden is nothing more than a common thief.  Whoever fails to vote against them is nothing more than a moral coward.

Which position of Romneys

Which position of Romneys was the winner?

The problem is that while Romney is probably a truly wonderful guy with executive experience, his flipflopping was tooo grandiouse in scheme and was the ultimate millstone to the ticket.

Prolife?  Maybe, maybe not.

By the way, Massachussetts is obviously an UNSERIOUS State as witnessed by the Kennedy clan.

I like Romney, but even I

I like Romney, but even I give Romney a C- on the 2nd amendment.

  Biden represents a state

  Biden represents a state with a population of only 800,000.  And he shares those responsibilities with another senator.  Not a lot of heavy lifting there.

Delaware is an integral

Delaware is an integral part of the American economy. While small, it supports a significant amount of commerce.

The stats

Not comparable.  Furthermore, even if that were true, Biden has 35 years of high level experience.  He was elected to the Senate in 1973.

  That's right 35 years for

  That's right 35 years for biden.  The entrenched lifetime politician that the Primary Campaign obama was going to change.   Of course now, the General Election obama is cozying up to the establishment of which biden is a lifetime member.  Obama did nothing in his years as a state senator to change anything.  He worked the system just like all the other Chicago democrats (and Republicans).

Oh I agree, but he clearly

Oh I agree, but he clearly has significantly more relevant experience.

All of your attacks on Biden mean nothing to me with regard to the Palin pick.

Again, it's not about what everyone else is doing, it's about what's best for America.

And how much oil does Deleware have?

Or other natural resources?

Decrepit senators don't count, of course. 

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

 

Blonde and MidAmerica

*man shakes pom poms*

*man shakes pom poms*

Not comparable? I disagree.

If you look at Alaska's stats you will find it also supports a significant amount of commerce.

It's important to remember that Delaware has been a state for 221 years, while Alaska has only been one for 49 years. 

 

 

If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love youBut if you really make them think, they'll hate you.

Don Marquis 1878-1937

Hail Delaware? Give

Hail Delaware?

Give Russia back Alaska and watch the fun begin.

How I loathe snobbery

So Biden has legislative experience since 1973.  So what?  You would think that all that time would have taught him to produce his own speeches, but he couldn't even do that without a little "help" from Neil Kinnock.

The years that Palin has had as an executive since her days as mayor of Wasilla, which, I might add, is not a hick town anymore - it is essentially a suburb of Anchorage - eclipses Biden's executive experience completely - if he even has any.

And as one who once lived in AK, allow me to clue you in.  The state dispenses much natural resources, and not just to the United States.  When I was last there, Seward was preparing to become a coal port once again, shipping coal to South Korea in exchange for some hefty won. 

I used to bike the coastal trail in Anchorage quite a bit and I always paused at Point Woronzof...for the uninitiated, Ted Stevens International Airport is nearby.  Why?  To count the number of 747s coming and going from Asia.  When you are in Anchorage, you may as well be halfway to Asia.  The airport, municipality, and state make money every time a plane touches down there, so it makes considerable money off of international trade.

So vital is AK to trade and transportation, that Anchorage is the #2 hub for FedEx in the world, after Memphis. 

Thus, once again, your snobbery is exposed for all the world to see.   

Whoever casts a vote for Obama-Biden is nothing more than a common thief.  Whoever fails to vote against them is nothing more than a moral coward.

Oh Really?

Palin was clearly not vetted properly  

Care to try to prove that statment?  It's a supposition on your part.  And if you can't, from there.....you have S Q U A T.

Typical.

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

 

I already proved it in my

I already proved it in my first post.

Why would anyone choose a candidate with this much baggage?

The press have only had 4 days on this.  Think of what will happen in the next two months.

Barrack Obama doesn't even have to respond. This is a gift for him.  She's going to get torn to shreds in the press while he can ignore her and focus on his message.

This was an unnecessary and the Republicans improv act is clear as day. They are in reaction mode and they lost all control of the first two days of the convention. They are off topic and it's going to hurt.

Mitt Romney was the obvious selection.

Do you really believe that two 15 minute conversations are what constitute a strong vetting process? Wouldn't you like your candidate to talk to his possible VP more than two times? I would.

McCain was going to win easily, but now he's in trouble and completely off track.

Really?

I didn't see ANY proof there.

Just mere supposition and inference on your part.

Sorry, you're going to have to do better than that.

Prove your assertion of two fifteen minute conversations.  You can't do it....so you may as well just reply to me...."whoops, I am wrong". 

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

 

Can you point to any

Can you point to any supposition or inference?

I simply stated the available information. Sorry you don't like it. Don't know what to tell you, but these are things everyone knows, some people are just trying to ignore them or spin them.

When asked in explicity by the Alaska Daily News in October of 2006, she said that she supported the bridge to nowhere.

5. Would you continue state funding for the proposed Knik Arm and Gravina Island bridges?

Yes. I would like to see Alaska's infrastructure projects built
sooner rather than later. The window is now--while our congressional
delegation is in a strong position to assist.

So far that's the only thing

So far that's the only thing I've heard that makes me dislike her. I might not agree with the other stuff, but I'm not sure it makes her a terrible choice. I don't think she was the best choice at all.

Fair enough, but I find it

Fair enough, but I find it all combined to be a major problem and it demonstrates to me that she was a rush decision who didn't undergo a proper vetting process.

Have you ever landed a job after two 15 min conversations? I sure haven't.

The simple fact is that Romney was an easy winner. Now the next two months will be spent defending their decision to choose her, not the substance of their message.

McCain may have essentially snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.

Compare them on just one base-issue.

Romney vs Palin on guns/hunting. I fully believe Palin eats & enjoys moose stew, and that she probably shot the actual moose in some cases. I'm not sure if I'll ever believe Romney actually went hunting. I suspect lots of Republicans don't quite fully trust him. Ignore other issues, because some Republican base voters concentrate on this one, and ask yourself if Romney was really so-sure a bet? I think not.
JMR -- who once landed a job after one 15 min. conversation.

The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.

Sarcasmo, who cares if he

Sarcasmo, who cares if he didn't hunt. He would've have been pro-gun, regardless of his sporting history.

If that's the one issues, then we're in big trouble.

Romney was a sure bet.

Do you disagree that the focus of the rest of the election will be Palin? They are not prepared for her, she wasn't properly vetted, and she's got a lot of issues. It's a terrible choice.

Single issue gun owner voters care

And Mitt's NOT been consistent on that issue, among others (there's a reason Ron Paul's fans welcomed Mitt to FL waving flip-flops besides just "we wear 'em so much that they're literally suntanned into our feet!"). Guns have never been a "big trouble" issue for politicians like Reagan because gun owners actually trusted him then, unlike Mitt now; and yes, I think the focus of the rest of the election will mostly be on the main players at the top of the ticket, just like usual.
JMR

The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.

sarcasmo, I don't even

sarcasmo, I don't even think it will be on the main players. It will be solely on Palin.

Again, the media wants to make money. People are bored of Obama and McCain. Palin is interesting. People will clamor for more and the media will find everything and create what they can't.

It's a shame. I have a sneaking suspicion we could have a Harriet Meirs repeat on our hands.

In a VP

McCain was probably looking for attitude and reform capabilities over what we would know as experience. He probably did not give much thought to the decision (because he doesn't give much thought to anything), but as a side note, he was aware that Palin's daughter was pregnant at the time he picked her.

Whether or not it works for McCain will only be told by time. I was leaning more towards Romney myself, but he has a few legislative flubs under his belt as well- not all of which are necessarily his fault or preference, but he would have been slightly "injured" going in.

 

------------------------------------------------------------

"My morality is your morality."

Which position on Gun

Which position on Gun ownership by Romeny do YOU believe?

Flip a coin

How the hell should I know?? Which is, coincidentally, exactly my point regarding Romney vs Palin.
JMR

The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.

Sarc: I concur.

Sarc:

I concur.

TG, They are saving up for the October surprise!!

With something like this: Down syndrome caused by smoking pot.

Of course the MSM is conflicted, kuz most kozers smoke pot.

The twisters they are, and high functioning to boot.

Liberals62%


IranianUranium

What baggage?

What "baggage" are you referring to, her daughter or her son? I hate to burst your bubble, but family is NEVER baggage. It seems to me that you're really not considering Mrs. Palin base on her politics or her experience. You're considering her sex and the effect motherhood has on one's profession, and that's all you’re considering. Get with the times, woman are just as capable of holding office as men are.

There’s a fact that you seem to be ignoring. She’s a sitting GOVERNOR! Governors are second only to the President when it comes to political power and the ability to affect change. They out-rank even the VP's!

Also, she’s face the fire in the political arena before and WON! She and her family have faced this type of scrutiny before and she‘s done well against the opposition, has she not?. That winning record is a BIG advantage for her, and one that Biden can’t even match as he LOST his bid for the presidential nomination. Let’s give Governor Palin the credit she deserves, shall we?

Obama: My job is above my pay grade

No Cobra, I'm referring to

No Cobra, I'm referring to the baggage I laid out in my first post in a convenient list fashion.

Based on your initial (false) assumption about what I was talking about, the rest of your post is irrelevant.

More "XP"

She has more experience than Obama, Biden and McCain combined. Keep trying though.

Kirk, I know you don't

Kirk, I know you don't honestly believe that.

More experience than Obama, Biden, AND McCain combined?

Sarc off?

This blind adoration is scary Kirk.

Yes I do!

I do believe it. She is the only one that has done anything that is even close to being President. It's called Governor. I can see how you missed that fact since the Drive Bys have hardly mentioned it.

Ok Kirk. That a silly

Ok Kirk. That a silly standpoint. I know you are trying to pull a fast on me so, that'll be all.

Silly?

Why? I'm serious, you however are not. I am not sure what you are trying to do here, but it is not working.

I think you're attempting

I think you're attempting to explain that your absurd claim that Palin has more experience than Obama, McCain, and Biden combined.

Proceed at any time. I'm listening.

Exec vs Legislative

Maybe you should learn the difference between executive experience and legislative experience. 

But then, given your extreme, total snobbery (it's only AK and only Wasilla, and not a place of GOOD BREEDING like MA!!!), I'll probably just see another excuse, and more ranting that Romney should have been the pick.

But he wasn't.  So don't f!#$ing vote for them then.  But remember: 

Whoever casts a vote for Obama-Biden is nothing more than a common thief.  Whoever fails to vote against them is nothing more than a moral coward.

But Kirk -- the Obama

But Kirk -- the Obama campaign is now running against the Rep's VP pick, and official Obamabots are claiming that his "experience" in running the campaign for 18 months (as if he is actually taking any decisions himelf) is greater than Palin when she was Mayor!

I'm not making this up -- though I think the ex-community organizer Obama is prone to invent things. Like his "votes," the Senate Committee he "owns" and isn't even on.

Of course, he doesn't seem to know Palin is a state Governor with a budget of billions, that borders two foreign countires. But he did give a speech recently.

Vote 4 change. Vote 4 anything. See Jack & Mr Shy's first campaign ad for the ONLY viable 3rd party candidate.

Jack,

"But he did give a speech recently."

And I heard he stays at Holiday Inn Express quite often.

(OK, I didn't really hear that.)

;-)

CobraMan, great points, She WON the race for the governor seat

She didn't come in second.

Go Palin Go!!

Liberals62%


IranianUranium

Barrack Obama doesn't even

Barrack Obama doesn't even have to respond. This is a gift for him.
She's going to get torn to shreds in the press while he can ignore her
and focus on his message.

Must be nice being a left-wing Democrat. The media does the dirty work. I hope John McCain and every other Republican point it out every chance they get.

 

Newsflash Update: The

Newsflash Update: The boyfriend is appearing at the RNC. Again, this is a show. It's very bizarre

Your perception of the

Your perception of the bizarre is itself bizarre.

The decisoin to bring the daughters lothario to the convetnion is less bizarre than the Dems allowing James Earl Carter within 15 KM of their convention.  If they had been smart they would have sent him to Paraguay for the week.

Can't see any bias, eh?

regarding "The media wants to make money. Things like teen pregnancy and ethics scandals will get coverage (whether deserved or not)."

 I guess that's what why the Edwards scandel blanketed the MSM outlets for weeks and weeks ad naseum.  Oh, wait...  that didn't happen.   No bias here.  Move along now...

 "Luge strategy? Lie flat and try not to die." C. Boyle (Olympic Luge Gold Medal winner 1996)

#2 is a strength, not a weakness

Regarding "2) She's Pro-Creationism. This is a tough stance to swallow. While not an issue to decide an election on, it does raise some red flags with regard to judgment considering Creationism has no place with legitimate science. " 

You're confusing science with scientism.  Many of the major disciplines of modern science were established by creationists.  (Boyle, Kepler, Newton, Mendel, etc.) 

"Luge strategy? Lie flat and try not to die." C. Boyle (Olympic Luge Gold Medal winner 1996)

Sorry, Creationism is an

Sorry, Creationism is an absolute joke. I can't take anyone that believes in this tripe seriously. Sorry, but it's infuriating to me that people want to spread these lies that only serve to hold our country back.

I don't trust anyone who believes in Creationism. They either have no ability for rational thought or they are lying for political purposes.

I don't like either of those possibilities. So we'll have to agree to disagree.

That's only your opinion

"Sorry, Creationism is an absolute joke."

Sorry, that's only your opinion, as no one has proven how life, or the universe for that matter, actually originated. When it comes to the origins of life and the universe, all we have is theory, also know as opinion. The absolute joke is your insistence that your opinions on the origins of life and the universe are more valid than someone else's.

Obama: My job is above my pay grade

No Cobra, the world was not

No Cobra, the world was not created 6,000 years ago. All of the creatures to ever walk the Earth were not created at the same time.

These are basic facts that if you can't grasp, then I can't help you.

Again, this is not the Creationism thread.  No matter what you believe, it's a weakness for a candidate.  That's the main point of this thread.

 

Then, perhaps you can help yourself...

Regarding "No matter what you believe, it's a weakness for a candidate."

Um, you may want to check the polling data on Creation vs Evolution.  It's hardly the weakness you seem to think it is. 

See, for example:  http://www.religioustolerance.org/ev_publi.htm

"Luge strategy? Lie flat and try not to die." C. Boyle (Olympic Luge Gold Medal winner 1996)

Cobra

Gingerman sometimes talks more like Gingerprecociousteenager.

Or a lot like my brother, who's older than me but I sometimes wonder if he stopped maturing at 16.

 

* * * SOCKS THE CAT '08 * * *
For REAL Change

Wow, you got one right

Sorry, Creationism is an absolute joke.

Which is why it will never be taught in the majority of schools in the U.S. and it makes no difference who the President or Vice President is. The citizens will not let it happen. It is a non-issue. 

Right, so how could you

Right, so how could you actually respect someone who held such an outrageous belief? Doesn't it make you question their judgment?

Again, alone it's not fatal, but in tandem with all her other issues, it's supports a trend of bad decision making, and in the case of the Bridge to Nowhere, outright lying.

This was a non-issue with Mitt.

Right

It's a belief, not policy.

A belief is a conscious

A belief is a conscious decision, the same as any other. It means you have examined the relevant information and come to a conclusion.

If you can examine the relevant information concerning Creationism and come to the conclusion that Creationism is real, than you have a diminished capacity for rational decision making.

This lack of rational thought will certainly negatively impact ANY decision this person makes.

Arguably, Creationism is not

Arguably, Creationism is not real. On the other hand, evolutionism is also untrue. All of our conclusions are formed on the basis of human observations through human tools derived from human engineering. Therefore, we accept a solution at our level of comprehension, because we refuse to look beyond the supernatural. I approach the matter from a standpoint of pure skepticism. I refuse to accept any material data as evidence for our existence.

"Creationism has no place

"Creationism has no place with legitimate science." - Gingerman

"God does not play dice with the universe." - Albert Einstein

 

When asked if he went to war with Iraq  to derail the impeachment vote:  “I don’t think any serious person would believe that any President would do such a thing." - President Clinton (Dec 1998).

Yes, yes, but a quote from

Yes, yes, but a quote from Einstein doesn't mean it's a legitimate science.

Neither do quotes from

Neither do quotes from hundreds of thousands of human scientists immediately make evolutionism a universal law.

I don't mind if Palin

I don't mind if Palin believes in creationism, as long as she doesn't try to get it taught in science classes. 

It's a plus for Republicans I suppose.

Creationism a plus? So

Creationism a plus? So it's a positive for the potential leader of the free world to believe in a useless fairy tale? A theory that has zero potential to provide any productivity for our country?

It's a minus for anyone hoping for a rational decision maker. 

It's a plus for Republicans

It's a plus for Republicans looking to get behind their candidate's VP choice.

 

balboa, you really think a

balboa, you really think a high proportion of Repbulicans believe in Creationism? If so, you've been here too long.

Gingerman why are you here?

We hold these truths to be self-evident that all men are created equal endowed by their Creator with certain.....

Since this group of men with a diminished capacity for rational decision making came up with the basis for the legal system it is obviously the wrong place for you.

"You can not support the Troops if you do not support their Mission" 

I am here to discuss the

I am here to discuss the relevant topics of the day with people that know what they're talking about.

What are you doing here?

how can you do that Ginger?

when you can't even follow my simple illustration.

You think 'here' meant NB?  When i quoted the founders of the country?    

"You can not support the Troops if you do not support their Mission" 

Gingerman

"Palin is the VP nom, Edwards is not. The media's obsession is not surprising, nor do I find it that offensive."

You are correct. Right now Edwards is not. Thanks for setting that record straight, genius. Oh, but here:

* The Enquirer first broke the rumor back in the fall of 2007. Edwards was campaigning for POTUS then.

* When the story really broke and he confessed, he was on the list (short or long, who knows, who cares) for VP under Obama who was at this point the presumptive Democratic Presidential nominee.

* Edwards had previously endorsed Obama, which was very big news to the MSM as they made it their lead story the day he did this.

But okay, whatever you say, there was nothing here... move along everyone. And then this gem:

"I don't think the lack of Edwards coverage was that strange given all of the mistakes by the media in recent years. Rathergate, et al. has neutered the nets."

Haha. Okay, right, the MSM treats all rumors equally like walking on egg shells since the Rathergate fiasco...

What's it like being delusional? Stop defending the media's blatant desire to pummel a Republican but stay mum on a Democrat. They're jumping on anything and everything in the Palin rumor mill faster than a NY minute.

Nice tap dancing, Ginger Rogers. 

 

* * * SOCKS THE CAT '08 * * *
For REAL Change

She's a weak candidate.

She's a weak candidate. The coverage is justified.

The main reason for the dealy of Edwards reporting was the original source.

The Enquirer created crippling suspicion. Have you ever read it? Come on, you weren't at all skeptical?

Of course the media is liberally biased, but she has major flaws. She was a terrible choice and McCain is paying for his impulsive decision.

All he had to do was choose Romney. That's it.

Funny

Let me just say this and it may not be related to the VP pick of Palin but: On my drive home every night for the last month or so, all I have seen in yards here are BO signs. Starting Saturday I noticed that there are plenty of McCain signs out now. It's almost 50/50. Something happened.

Yeah Kirk, something did

Yeah Kirk, something did happen. Obama got a bump in the polls and the Republicans have wasted two days of their convention defending their decision.

 

You have it backwards

You have it backward, the MSM, and yourself for that matter, has spent the last two days DENIGRATING her as the VP choice without actual considering her candidacy as legitimate. There's been no real discussion of Governor Palin by the MSM. There's only been opinion reported as "fact."

In this respect, McCain has nothing to defend, nor does Sarah Palin. It's the MSM who now has to defend such blatant biased reporting and attempted character assignations like bringing up the "issue" of her soon-to-be-married pregnant daughter or the circumstances surrounding the birth of her latest son.

As for Obama's "bump" in the polls, that is contributed more to his nomination speech than anything else, and you know it. Now that Obama's been removed from the news cycle and his speech is old news, you'll see a drop in the polls for him.

As for McCain's polling results and the effect that Governor Palin will have on his popularity, the effects of the Palin VP pick has yet to be seen amongst the general population as few people even heard of Governor Palin prior to McCain’s announcement. It's going to take time for most people to form an opinion of her and her qualifications for VP, so any effect on McCain's polls will be at least three days away, if not more. I would say that the post RNC polls will be the most telling, wouldn't you? I'm willing to bet that McCain polls will receive the same post convention boost that Obama enjoyed.

Obama: My job is above my pay grade

Cobra, the attacks against

Cobra, the attacks against her are not opinion. I posted a list in my original post. Those are all facts. If you don't belive me, then why don't you try to refute a single one of them?

I disagree

I disagree; she's a strong candidate, far stronger than MOST of the VP's over the last 200 years. McCain made a brilliant choice and I commend him for it as this is reuniting the Republican Party more than any other situation since the 90's. This election now belongs to the Republicans and you'll see both President McCain and Vice President Palin come February.

As for Mitt Romney, he couldn’t get the support of the Republicans during the primaries, what makes you think that adding him today would make that general lack of support any less detrimental?

Obama: My job is above my pay grade

Cobra, over the past 200

Cobra, over the past 200 years? That view is so extreme that it's not even permissible in normal discussion. Clearly you are chugging the kool aid which is mind boggling to me.

Romney was a highly successful businessman, we have an economy and a debt that need managing. That alone makes him significantly more competent and important to America than Palin.

Do a little reaserch!

Didn't you even pay attention in American History class? Do a little research before condemning my arguments or me. Just how many VP candidates actually had the experience that Governor Palin has today? I would say DAMN FEW! Most were only one or two term Senators, a few were Mayors, but very few were Governors.

"Romney was a highly successful businessman, we have an economy and a debt that need managing."

Sarah Palin IS a highly successful Governor, she was also a successful TWO-TERM Mayor and this gives her experience in managing GOVERNMENT budgets. You can’t just disregard that kind of experience out of hand. Romney was also a Governor. So Palin’s fiscal experience is equal to Romney's, correct?

On Edit: I should add that I don't like the way Romney balances a budget. He does so by INCREASING TAXES!

Obama: My job is above my pay grade

Temper tantrum

All he had to do was choose Romney. That's it.  And because he didn't, you are throwing one of the biggest temper tantrums I have seen on NB in some time. 

Whoever casts a vote for Obama-Biden is nothing more than a common thief.  Whoever fails to vote against them is nothing more than a moral coward.

"We" are not surprised, "You" are!

"We" are not surprised by the "level of attention and scrutiny that Palin in currently undergoing".  "We" are accustomed to this.  "You" are the only one surprised.

A lot of very smart people have responded to your post, but after reading your first two paragraphs and that you "don't see any maliciousness in the coverage, just overkill" I skipped down to your last two paragraphs where you explain why the media didn't cover the Edwards scandal because they were not 100% certain. If you actually believe these ridiculous statements then there is no  use engaging you any further. 

If you believe that the

If you believe that the goal of a private corporation is to generate revenue, then yes, it's not malicious at all. It's business.

Your argument doesn't hold water Gingerman

So, how's that business going?  Ratings up?  Subscriptions up?

You don't think they're

You don't think they're trying? You don't think the Palin coverage is an attempt to get viwers, hence increase revenue? I'm not so sure I know what you're arguing.

The obvious answer to the overall decreases in the traditional media is lack of ability to transition to the internet, the now dominant information source. Why would you ever buy a newspaper when the news is old by the time you get it? The only reason I can think to buy one is when I don't have access to the internet. If those are your only buyers, then you're going to be in trouble.

BS.  If they wanted to get

BS.  If they wanted to get viewers they would also go nuts over...

Obama - Resko

Obama - Ayers

Obama - Reverend Wright

Obama - no experience

Obama - Acorn

Good grief!

When asked if he went to war with Iraq  to derail the impeachment vote:  “I don’t think any serious person would believe that any President would do such a thing." - President Clinton (Dec 1998).

You asked for it, you got it.

Although others have rebutted you point for point, and have done so successfully in my opinion, I will respond to your accusations and rebut you point for point.

"McCain only talked to her twice before choosing her."

The vetting process involves more than McCain talking to her. It involves a search of her public records, her voting records, personal finances, and the like. McCain doesn't do this research by himself; he appoints other to do it for him. I quite satisfied that Governor Palin was extensively vetted prior to Mcain selecting her from a list of possible running mates.

"She's Pro-Creationism."

So am I, so what's your point? This is a private issue and not a professional one. You don't like her personal beliefs but you can't point to any indication that her beliefs are actual a detriment to her behavior in office or her ability to perform the functions her office requires.

I take it that this alone is enough for you to stop supporting her, but that's an indication as to your shallowness and lack of vision. As a VP, Palin isn’t in the position to force her views onto anyone, ethr publicly or privately. Not even the President can do that. So your concern is merely one of personal preference and not of professional competence.

"She has strongly supported Ted Stevens"

As you said, he hasn't been convicted of anything. So her support of a fellow Alaskan politician isn't worrisome as most politicians support their fellow party members when accused of crimes or other nefarious activities. Remember how the democrats supported Clinton during his impeachment trial?

"She lacks experience"

This is your weakest argument, Palin has far more experience in running an administration than both Obama and Biden combined. She not only has executive experience in running an administration; she also has experience in managing government finances and budgets. She is also experience in military command as she Commander in Chef of the Alaskan National Guard (except for those troops that have been federalized, of course).

"I don't see the pregnancy thing as an issue, but the fact is, I understand why it's getting top billing."

If you don't see it as an issue, then why do you "understand" why it deserves "top billing?" That's a contradiction. If it’s not an issue then it doesn’t deserves "top billing," correct?

Your repeated claims that she was improperly vetted doesn’t stand up to scrutiny. One of the very lawyers that were involved in the vetting process made a public statement today. How can you explain this little fact? Was this guy LYING about the vetting process?

Face it, most of your arguments against Palin are personal in nature, you dislike her personal behavior, and your arguments against her professionalism and experience do not survive scrutiny.

It's clear to me that you decided first to reject Palin as VP as soon as you heard her name and now you're looking for negative statements and arguments anywhere you can find them in order to justify your initial reaction to the announcement of her addition to the ticket.

Obama: My job is above my pay grade

"Creationism has no place

"Creationism has no place with legitimate science." - Gingerman

"God does not play dice with the universe." - Albert Einstein

 

When asked if he went to war with Iraq  to derail the impeachment vote:  “I don’t think any serious person would believe that any President would do such a thing." - President Clinton (Dec 1998).

Immortal words of wisdom

"Of all the animosities which have existed among mankind, those which are caused by a difference of sentiments in religion appear to be the most inveterate and distressing, and ought most to be deprecated."

GEORGE WASHINGTON, letter to Sir Edward Newenham, Oct. 20, 1792

Obama: My job is above my pay grade

Einstein wouldn't have even

Einstein wouldn't have even considered Creationism worthy of consideration.

In fact, he once said:

The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of
human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still
primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish.

Basically a terrible example to provide any sort of support for Creationism.

 

You are confusing his belief

You are confusing his belief in God with his belief that the Bible is the word of God.

Wrong Conservative Voice,

Wrong Conservative Voice, you don't understand the quote.

he wrote an entire essay

On the subject. It goes a bit deeper than just a quote. And I think I recall reading a similar essay in an out of print book.
JMR

The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.

Before you accuse me of not

Before you accuse me of not being able to read

"The word God [the Bible] is for me nothing more than the expression and product of
human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still
primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish."

as compared to this quote

"God does not play dice with the universe."

other quotes

A
knowledge of the existence of something we cannot penetrate, of the manifestations
of the profoundest reason and the most radiant beauty - it is this knowledge
and this emotion that constitute the truly religious attitude; in this sense,
and in this alone, I am a deeply religious man. (Albert Einstein)

I do not believe in a personal God and I have
never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which
can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure
of the world so far as our science can reveal it. (Albert Einstein,
1954)

I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself
in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself
with the fates and actions of human beings. (Albert Einstein)

http://www.spaceandm...

Hence, maybe it is you who doesn't understand the quote.

 

Your quotes and the writings

Your quotes and the writings from which you have pulled them directly refute the idea of Creationism.

Thank you for the leg work though. Now I don't have to do it when I get the inevitable attacks from the religious folks on this blog that love to derail threads.

HA

Now it is I who will say you do not understand the quotes!  Again you are confusing the Creation Story as defined in Genesis ( the Bible ) and the belief that there is a God and that God created the universe, and gave the universe laws, which are defined but not understood with Physics.  Einstein maybe thinks Adam and Eve is hogwash, but he certainly did believe in religious matters.

People like us.

Hey, it's not my fault that gay people don't lynch themselves. Somebody's gotta do it.

 

------------------------------------------------------------

"My morality is your morality."

People like you.

You know what they say about people like you who don't follow God's will.

Illegitimate human beings. All of them.

Actually, those are just my thoughts. But you seem to fit the bill pretty well.

Hey, maybe you could go hang out with some gays to make you feel better. I'd let you know where the nearest prison is, but I don't know where you live :(

 

------------------------------------------------------------

"My morality is your morality."

You don't understand Einstein

The following are all quotes by Einstein:

"All religions, arts and sciences are branches of the same tree."

"It was the experience of mystery - even if mixed with fear - that engendered religion."

"My religion consists of a humble admiration of the
illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details
we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind.
"

"That deep emotional conviction of the presence of a superior reasoning power, which is revealed in the incomprehensible universe, forms my idea of God."

"When the solution is simple, God is answering."

"Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of Truth and Knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of the gods."

"We should take care not to make the intellect our god; it has, of course, powerful muscles, but no personality."

and the best quote yet:

"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."

Still think Einstein wouldn't have considered creationism "worthy" of consideration?

Obama: My job is above my pay grade

So, what do you believe

So, what do you believe in?

Big bang?

Evolution?

Unproven, unprovable, theories.

You like to believe that man created himself.

I trust in the Word of God.

Both require faith.

BTW, there are a slew of scientists that believe in creation.  I guess your scientific consensus is much like the man-made-global-warming consensus.   

 

When asked if he went to war with Iraq  to derail the impeachment vote:  “I don’t think any serious person would believe that any President would do such a thing." - President Clinton (Dec 1998).

Snobbery

Palin was ONLY governor of AK, with ONLY 600,000 people? What total snobbery.

And how many more times do I have to say this? The GOVERNOR went to the AOR and visited the troops of the AK NG. The SENATOR was dragged kicking and screaming to the AOR. The GOVERNOR does not vote on defense issues and do things like confirm Generals and Admirals to their rank and positions, the SENATOR DOES.

Whoever casts a vote for Obama-Biden is nothing more than a common thief.  Whoever fails to vote against them is nothing more than a moral coward.

Relax folks. The attempted

Relax folks. The attempted media assassination of Sarah Palin is going to backfire spectacularly. I have no doubt about that.

I will admit to being slightly concerned for a couple of hours Monday, but... They've already gone too far, in just two days.

They can't help letting the bile out for all to see. It's so too much.

I haven't seen such a level of crazy since Nicholson went all axe-mad in The Shining. Piling on is going to turn people off all right. But not Palin.

When she turns in a barnstorming speech live tomorrow (and we just know she'll nail it), she's going to have a way bigger audience than Biden had, and non-elitists are going to be thinking... I like this woman. I don't like what some snotty nosed DC madam (I'm Andrea Mitchell. I'm Maureen Dowd. I'm (insert snotty nosed b++ch name here)...

Oh -- and I'm pretty confident she'll deal with Plug Biden like chopped liver.

Vote 4 change. Vote 4 anything. See Jack & Mr Shy's first campaign ad for the ONLY viable 3rd party candidate.

I suspect there may be more

I suspect there may be more people watching her speech than watched Obama's. Tomorrow America meets Sarah Palin.

The Newsbusters Comments Crew: Saving the Environment - One Ribeye at a Time! h/t Dr_Liberty

 Wrong Eleanor!  Your

 Wrong Eleanor!  Your point is moot.  I put it to YOU Morton Kondrake!  Same question.

*blink*

Sorry, for a moment there I was in McLaughlin Group Land.  Whew!  Good thing those flashes aren't as frequent these days.

When a liberal speaks, the truth is busy elsewhere.

   OK this is just for

   OK this is just for fun.  In my 48 years of observing elections there has been one constant.  The democrats run against the Republicans and the Republicans run against the media.  The old media may be on there way down but they are going down with a fight.  Just like Imperial Japan.  Here's a video interlude that represents the USS Main Street against the forces of the Imperial Media as they launch their final desparate attacks.

Brent, I personally think

Brent,

I personally think this knee-jerk reaction by the left concerning Gov. Palin is grounded in two simple reasons.

One, they know deep in their hearts that the Palin selection by McCain has just ended Obama's chance of sitting in the White House.

Two, only lefties can make mistakes and be forgiven..... by their peers! (We tend to look to a higher athority).   Ecofascists - Politics - Gov. Palin - Insanity - Kitchen Sink

 

 

Making Fun of AGW http://giovanniworld.wordpress.com/