In 'Hardball' Interview, Matthews Coaxes Giuliani to Say GOP Needs to Moderate Stances on Social Issues, Environment, Immigration

July 7th, 2015 9:15 PM

MSNBC host Chris Matthews used a portion of his July 7 interview with Rudy Giuliani to get the moderate Republican to express his wish that his party moderate soften both its tone and policy positions on immigration, social issues, and the environment.

[To be fair, Giuliani was not strident in his tone nor did he come off, to me at least, as haughtily  looking down on his more conservative fellow party members. All the same, the practical result is a moderate-to-liberal GOP on MSNBC airwaves counseling the party to be, well, less conservative in order to win.]

This followed after Matthews was unable to get Giuliani to thoroughly lambaste Donald Trump for his comments on illegal immigration. Giuliani, who noted Trump is a friend, said he disagreed with the Manhattan businessman but complained that numerous corporate entities were, at this point, "piling on" by publicly repudiating Trump and ripping up business ties they have with him and/or his enterprises. 

Here's the relevant transcript (emphases mine): 

MSNBC
Hardball
July 7, 2015

7:04 p.m. Eastern

CHRIS MATTHEWS: I gotta get back to Donald Trump. All these big-shot business guys, I mean all these companies have gotten rid of him. NBC, the company I work for, Univision, Televisa, Macy's, Serta, Farouk Systems, NASCAR, ESPN, the PGA. Has that been fair? And now the mayor of New York right now, de Blasio, says he wants to get rid of Trump doing any business with him. Are they being fair to Donald Trump?

RUDY GIULIANI (R), former New York Mayor: No. They're overdoing it. It's a pile-on. And they're overdoing it. I don't agree with Donald's comment, as I said. I would say it totally differently, but I think they're overdoing it. And the conclusion that he comes to, that we have a porous border that needs to be controlled better is the correct conclusion...

[...]

7:07 p.m.

MATTHEWS: Let me ask you about this Republican race. Because you're pro choice and, in fact you were for gay rights pretty much down the line. And now the Republican Party seems to have three brackets. The hawks, which is just about everybody's a hawk in the Republican Party. The evangelists, who are very much against same-sex, against gay rights at all, basically, and certainly against abortion rights, and they're still fighting that battle. That includes people like Santorum, Cruz, Huckabee, Walker. And then you've got one libertarian out there, Paul, who you don't like, probably, because he's like his dad, and he's against wars in the Middle East, period. He's kind of a guy that says stay out of the Middle East.

How is that all going to get brokered together in your party where somebody's going to come out on top who's both hawkish enough, traditional enough, and libertarian enough, in other words less government enough, to add up into a party that can get 51 percent against Hillary Clinton?

GIULIANI: I think it has to be emphasis on the economy and national security. I'm a Republican for those two reasons. On the other reasons, I'm a moderate or whatever else you'd like to call me. I don't mind being called a hawk on national security policy, I am. I believe in a strong America that has to assert itself.

[...]

I have a theory about the Republican Party. If we're the party of lesser government, if we're going to stay out of your pocketbook, shouldn't we stay out of your bedroom as well?

MATTHEWS: Well, let me ask you this: Can the Republican Party win if it opposes a path to citizenship down the line?

GIULIANI: I think they have to-- No. I think the Republican Party has to say that if you get proper control of the border then there's going to be a road to -- a lot of them would like to say regularization, you know, legal status -- I'd like to see them say citizenship, and I believe Gov. Bush says citizenship, so, I'm pretty happy with that. 

MATTHEWS: If they stay the pro-life party, can they get away with it nationally with women out there for Hillary? Can they convince enough American women to vote pro-life and anti-Hillary both?

GIULIANI: I think so, I think so. I think there's been enough established that that's now the constitutional law of the United States including with this fairly conservative court. 

MATTHEWS: Oh, so it's safe to say--

GIULIANI: That no president can really interfere with that. 

MATTHEWS: So it doesn't, it neuters it. Let me ask you about climate. Can they continue to be skeptics about science, the Republican Party?

GIULIANI: I think the Republican Party has to admit that 90, 95 percent of the scientists look at it a certain way. Whether you agree with them or don't agree with them, carbon emissions, all these emissions aren't good for you anyway. So, I don't know why we don't support clean air.

MATTHEWS: I'm with you. But I don't think your party is.

GIULIANI: Even if 5 or 10 percent think it isn't man-produced, what's the difference? It still is dangerous. Now, if you want to go so far as to destroy businesses and to destroy energy, we have to do it in a careful way, and some of the way-out environmentalists are just as bad as the ones who are unwilling to accept any form of climate change.