An American Carol debuted this past weekend and there have been some disturbing reports that ticket sales for the film have been fraudulently credited to other films in cineaplexes all across the country. The rumors are so persistent that the American Carol folks have added a section to their website for movie-goers to report the fraud. The filmmakers are reporting that at least 10 theaters are being investigated for this fraudulent practice.
So, if you have attended this film and happen to still have you ticket stubs, take a look at them to see if you were credited with having paid to attend the right movie.
There has also been a few reports by Eric Odom that some venues have incorrectly identified the rating for the film as sporting an "R" rating instead of the proper "PG-13" that the film rating board actually gave it.
We'll have to keep an eye on this situation, but it wouldn't surprise me if it turned out that certain people are trying to doom this film.
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Comments Policy
Of Course
October 6, 2008 - 23:42 ET by rammingspeedOf course they're trying to undermine the film. Hollywood has power with the theater syndicate and Hollywood is, for the most part, lunatic liberal and they will commit any kind of fraud to get what they want.
Caution, elitists at work
October 6, 2008 - 23:50 ET by wdhorningThey are already elitist with all their alcolade trophys and other stuff.
I mean how many plumbers go to a nationally televised, award ceremony for having put plumbing in the largest number of homes in a single year. And how many airplane pilots got to a nationally televised, award ceromony for flying the most miles.
Actors that participate in this kind of stuff ore elitist, arrogant, snobs. In fact, I really only want to see in the movies those actors who I know rejected invitations to attend or receive such alcolades.
Communism flourishes in the theatres
October 6, 2008 - 23:46 ET by wdhorningAnother communist tactic, inspired by "Chairman" Obama?
I shouldn't be surprised
October 6, 2008 - 23:50 ET by Indiana JoeI mean, face it, if people (MSM) are willing to go to these extremes to support a left-wing agenda (read OBAMA), what's a little ticketing-and-rating hanky-panky by some young, cineplex version of "you want fries with that?"
After all, the left has been grooming the "youth vote" for years. Heard a report today that something like 60% of the under-30 crowd are Obamanauts.
"... smells like.... victory!" - Robert Duvall, Apocalypse Now
hmm... Your 60% statistic
October 7, 2008 - 06:58 ET by ThatDudehmm... Your 60% statistic sounds rather low. At least around here I'd say it's more like 80-90%. Let's not forget that also the under 18 crowd has also been drawn into this election as Obamanuts and likely could be an issue in the next election.
I'm not sure if my
October 7, 2008 - 10:34 ET by CortillaenI'm not sure if my generation is full of idiots or just media-brainwashed ignoramuses...
www.daybydaycartoon.... Proving that conservative comedy is very real.
"With your mind as high as Mt. Fuji you can see all things clearly. And you can see all the forces that shape events; not just the things near to you." - Miyamoto Musashi
You know, it's just pathetic...
October 6, 2008 - 23:57 ET by PrairieSkyhow deep the left will sink into the slime, isn't it??
Now they're trying to hijack movie ticket sales?? Man, that's sad...
As I said...It's just pathetic.
"...peace is the highest aspiration of the American People. We will negotiate for it, sacrifice for it, we will never surrender for it, now or ever." President Ronald Reagan, January 20, 1981
Moore or less
October 6, 2008 - 23:57 ET by wdhorningThe movie reviews are typical. If the reviewer is a known liberal, the movie is written up as a flop. If is a true independent or conservative, it is written up as 3.5 out of 5 stars. It is more of a lampoon than a comedy. But if you think Michael Moore is a jerk, this movie is for you.
Funny movie, worth the ticket price... go see it now, laugh
October 7, 2008 - 00:10 ET by upcountrywaterdry humor like airplane. some thought provoking sections, worth the ticket price.
Sometimes I was the only one laughing at times, my laughing was ok, only 8 other folk in the theater when i went.
CLIMATE CRISIS
IranianUranium
9 people total?
October 7, 2008 - 00:25 ET by nicholas nicklebywait, upcountry, did you just say that only 9 people (counting you) were watching this particular screening of the film?
I'm not going to argue that there's not fraud going on, but if you're wondering why the film didn't do so well, that might be (part of) your answer right there. (There could be fraud AND it could be unpopular at the same time.)
hay nick, i live on the most demo-progressive island in the USA
October 7, 2008 - 00:36 ET by upcountrywaterThe only county in the nation where Kucinich won the 2004 primary for president.
3 days so far, doing ok, I'll buy some DVD'S
I like spending money on that movie FELT GOOD.
CLIMATE CRISIS
IranianUranium
heh
October 7, 2008 - 00:43 ET by nicholas nicklebyHey UCW,
yeah, I had another version of that post where I said something about how maybe you saw it at an odd time, which might have explained the low turn-out (I knew a cop who used to watch movies when he got off shift, which occasionally led him into situations like the one you described), but I figured if that was the case, then you would say so in response to my post.
Kucinich? Ha, now there's a liberal! If he were a Senator he'd be most liberal senator by a long mile.
If Kucinich was really a gnome
October 7, 2008 - 00:54 ET by BlondeHe'd still be a joke.
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
Albeit an unfunny dirty
October 7, 2008 - 01:16 ET by cocodrieAlbeit an unfunny dirty joke.
nick, OK county fair going on at the same time, 3 pm Sunday.
October 7, 2008 - 00:55 ET by upcountrywaterOk maybe the crowds are there now!
You should go and see it, you well rounded individual , it was funny.
CLIMATE CRISIS
IranianUranium
Nick
October 7, 2008 - 01:35 ET by well99My brother seen it and said it was good.Not great but some real good parts.So what is up with Dennis.I might disagree with his politics but he seems to be a good person.
It would be a dirty trick....
October 7, 2008 - 00:48 ET by shawn228If it were true. I do not know if it is or not, but I heard the film sucks, not just from the msm, but from a few popular posters from this site.
It will crash and burn, just fine all by itself without those evil liberals
Real life video games are cool
Ah, but...
October 7, 2008 - 01:18 ET by Warner Todd HustonAh, but evil liberals aren't satisfied to allow the market and reality to come to their aid. As they are wont to do, fascistic campaigns must be organized and undertaken. They cannot help themselves. It's in their blood.
Haha...
October 7, 2008 - 17:41 ET by ConservativeMissourian...Nice point, Warner! Given American Carol's humiliating deficit in public relations, advertising and overall publicity, Libs must realize that the movie won't break box office records; they need to chill out and be "tolerant" of their conservative friends for once.
Ridiculous!
October 7, 2008 - 00:48 ET by killbill2Bill Maher's film beat it playing in less than a third as many theatres. It's hard for me to get too riled up about this. Welcome to the right side of the political spectrum David Zucker but it's not the ideology that's to blame here... you just haven't been funny in about 20 years. Sorry...
kb2, go see it.
October 7, 2008 - 01:05 ET by upcountrywaterAn American Carol trailer
CLIMATE CRISIS
IranianUranium
Well...yes and no.
October 7, 2008 - 06:15 ET by BigDumbApeWell, it sort of depends on what you mean when you say "Bill Maher's film beat it." Yes, Religulous is playing in a lesser number of theaters, so it's per-screen average was higher.
However, in terms of actual box office, An American Carol won the competition by taking in $3.6 million.
All in all, the larger question (that's true for any Hollywood film) is which one will have better legs in the week ahead. On the other hand, if someone wanted to believe that a theater owner (or even a theater chain) would actually shift box office money from one film to another in order to give it more press and political notoriety, then obviously the film to really keep an eye on will be the box office results for "W." when it debuts.
Movie Review: W
October 7, 2008 - 07:27 ET by BlueCat57Bush is an idiot. Bush lied people died. Impeach him. Two donkey butts up.
Now you don't have to spend all that time and money going to the theaters.
The weekend boxoffice
October 7, 2008 - 11:35 ET by HockeyKidThe weekend boxoffice returns show "An American Carol" coming in ahead of "Religulous" in the gross. So even if there was anti-Zucker results-tampering at the box office, Maher's big-time screed loses.
We like facts here.
An American Carol Still Outgrossing Religulous
October 7, 2008 - 17:09 ET by stratmanAn American Carol still leads in box office gross. What counts is gross, not number of days playing, when it comes to book on a movie. The rest is just manipulating data to make something look better or worse for preferential purposes.
Number of screens playing is important to gross, but other considerations must be factored, namely, will a particular movie play well in the community. Religulous has a smaller audience in America because there still are more believers in religion than not.
As a theater owner, why pay for a dog that won't fetch in your community? In the past, and I'll bet currently, distributors would pressure theaters to show specific movies in order to receive the "blockbusters". It was legal extortion, but it still was/is financial blackmail.
Another thing when looking at gross and popularity, Religulous is playing in larger communities where the price of a ticket is greater than in smaller community. Anyone that has paid for a ticket in New York or Los Angeles, two big markets for Religulous, understands this fact. Religulous most likely has earned its gross on fewer ticket sales because of higher ticket prices, and therefore, is not as popular a choice among theater goers.
Religulous has the possiblity of a wider release IF it can capture the minds of Americans with their hard earned entertainment dollars. It is too early to tell, but, Michael Moore's movies gained wider market share because of word of mouth (and the right timing for his propaganda).
My gestalt is that Religulous will not last in theaters long (2 weeks, maybe a little longer in specific markets) and then pop up on cable TV soon to push the Leftist agenda. Look for numerous showings on TV so as to indoctrinate the youth with Mahre's poison.
John Lennon wrote "imagine there's no Heaven."
I write "Imagine there's no Bill Mahre." It's easy if you do.
profit?
October 7, 2008 - 17:16 ET by nicholas nicklebybut Stratman, don't forget how much they cost to make--An American Carol is going to take longer to show a profit.
Depends
October 8, 2008 - 01:01 ET by stratmanAn American Carol - $20 Million
Religulous - $10 Million
As I've said in an earlier post, why $10 million for a guerilla interview movie?
Return on investment will be tied to international markets, cable TV contracts and DVD sales. Theater showings may be a minor portion of gross in the end. AS such, An American Carol may not take longer to show profit. Both movies may surpass cost at roughly the same time.
those numbers are
October 9, 2008 - 13:11 ET by patmac49those numbers are misleading..and this is based on the number of theatres each opened in..the mahar movie opened in much fewer theatres and had a bigger take per theatre..but don t get me wrong ..i will see neither and this is not a political statement..i am in the numbers business(no,not that numbers business) and this is just a fact
Yes, numbers can be
October 10, 2008 - 03:31 ET by stratmanYes, numbers can be misleading:
The gross per theater is only important to the individual theater owners in the end.
Some of the statments about number of theaters seem to infer that there is a direct relationship between number of theaters playing a movie and that movie's gross. Not so. Boutique movies do not play well in every market. That is why there are "limited" theater showings. And a dog in three times the number of theaters is not going to continue to perform outside of its opening when word gets out it is a stinker.
Now, if the movie become "viral", then that's a different story. Religulous did have a little kicker today with a nice upswing in ticket sales. It still, however, lags in gross receipts to An American Carol.
I know this is late...
October 15, 2008 - 10:27 ET by BosTarusI know this is an old thread, but I was catching myself up; I
couldn't help but comment even if know one reads this. These figures
are all misleading-first off, Religulous' budget was only around $2.5
million... I'm not sure where you got the $10 million figure from. So
it made its money back opening weekend.
And as far as
documentaries go, anything over a $3 million opening weekend
(especially on a meager 500 screens) is considered pretty successful.
Its not considered a raging success, but by no means is it considered a
failure. I work in film (documentary films to be exact) and I'd be
proud of that number.
And the per-screen-average is
definitely nothing to scoff at. That's a very important figure to
consider when the studios are evaluating the success of a film. So you
shouldn't ignore it either.
So when Religulous beats
American Carol 3 to 1 with its per screen average-and is able to nearly
match its total box office with only a third of the screens... you
really can't say American Carol beat it.
And to top it all
off, I'm writing this post 11 days after the fact, and Religulous is
now a million ahead of American Carol-and with the same number of
screens. All this info can be found at BoxOfficeMojo.
That
being said, I actually thought Religulous was pretty terrible... so I'm
in no way defending the movie on its merits... simply on its numbers.
The $10 Million figure came
October 15, 2008 - 14:02 ET by stratmanThe $10 Million figure came from BoxOfficeMojo, which subsequently changed the number.
Per-screen-average must be placed in context. A movie about my home town will play well in the greater city area but will most likely do bumpkiss elsewhere. Showing in a handful of theaters locally will show a high gross. Opening that movie in wider distribution will dilute the per-screen-average. Success in a small market does not necessarily translate to success in a large market. The boutique film Religulous behaves analogous to my example. Per-screen-averages may lead a distributor/producer to open the movie wider, but it does not dictate action, only consideration. Total gross receipts are king in the end when it comes to success since market variation flux is always a factor.
Another way to look at this is the very real possibility that if Religulous was playing in the same number of theaters that its per-screen-average would be similar to An American Carol.
Also, if per-screen-average was so important, why hasn't Reliulous been opened up for wider play? Maybe the powers that be do not feel it has gone viral enough yet. Maybe because they know that the market for their movie is circumspect and would only present as a loss for many theaters in the wider market.
Lastly, exactly what age groups are the primary theater patrons? Young people who are more likely to be left of center in their politics and most desirous of being entertained by a movie that "sticks it to the man". Drawing Conservatives into a theater these days is a more difficult prospect for a multitude of reasons.
In the end, it doesn't matter which has better receipts. Funding for Leftist crap will continue no matter how Religulous performs. The evidence is inescapable given the number of Leftist movies the past few years that bombed yet still more were greenlighted (think of all the anti-Iraq movies).
J'accuse!
October 15, 2008 - 23:24 ET by JWFYou watched Religulous? That says something right there about your temperament, you can not be trusted. Your brain is severely infected with liberal splooge.
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
Yeah, imagine the nerve;
October 16, 2008 - 12:03 ET by JasonCYeah, imagine the nerve; actually viewing a film before criticizing it. Next he'll say we shouldn't judge books by the pictures on the front. What an elitist.
Who would have dreamed that when socialism came to the U.S.A. it would be brought not by Bolsheviks in blue jeans but Wall Street bankers in Gucci loafers?
That's still a lousy
October 7, 2008 - 17:17 ET by balboaThat's still a lousy opening for a movie.
Lousy Begats Lousy... Usually
October 8, 2008 - 01:10 ET by stratmanBal:
It seems that Religulous has done decently so far for its genre. It's a true boutique movie that contains a heavy dose of bitter snark with some humor.
An American Carol may be slightly behind expectations for its genre. It may alienate one half the population due to subject matter, real and perceived. But, this barrier may be overcome if the humor transends partisanship enough, especially important concerning the almighty teenage dollar, a group not known for enjoying Conservative-aligned humor.
BTW, lousy entertainment sometimes prevails. Consider Madonna.
only 8 at my showing also.
October 7, 2008 - 07:07 ET by Radar_OneI went and saw it in Atlanta Fri night 10pm...only 8 ppl at the showing counting me and my girlfriend...It was a pretty funny film though. At least it beat Bill Maher.
Barack Obama= Half Honkey...ALL Donkey
8 people!!!!!!!!!
October 7, 2008 - 08:57 ET by daberkmanLiar!!!!!Liberalelitistundercounter!!!!!
There were at least 1000 people in the movie theater watching this movie all who had been printed out tickets for a Che Guevera biopic!
Liar!! bighit!!! funny movie!!
»→ Yes, 8 people!!
October 7, 2008 - 09:04 ET by Cool ArrowAnd they thought it was a meet & greet with Jane Pauley.
"We cannot win with eggheads and African-Americans." - Paul Begala, Democrat racebaiter
..."guardians" of free speech:
October 7, 2008 - 07:13 ET by Sua SponteIf it is being blocked by "guardians" of free speech:
1. There must be truth to the satire
2. It must be funny
I must go see this one
I'm looking for a babysitter
October 7, 2008 - 07:23 ET by BlueCat57I'm looking for a babysitter right now so I can go see it before the liberals ban and burn it.
That's like reading Marx to become an entrepreneur.
FOX AND FRIENDS TALKING ABOUT THIS NOW!!!
October 7, 2008 - 07:52 ET by TheSterHA!! This is the second NB issue that Fox and Friends has brought up...in one hour!! From 7am - 8am cst.
The other story brought up was the scrubbing of the Democrat skit from NBC.com from SNL.
How do I know this...I'm at work...listening to Fox News on XM Radio...and I'm posting at the same time...(don't tell anybody).
Ster.
While there may very well
October 7, 2008 - 07:54 ET by JasonCWhile there may very well be concentrated fraud going on - I certainly wouldn't know any better than anybody else - this strikes me as a bit suspicious. The websites claim are extremely vague; "they've hear from some people." They seem not to have any evidence that this is part of a concerted pattern on anybody's part. If anything, it seems most likely that it would be the doing of a ticketbooth employee making 9 bucks an hour who feels empowered by doing this - why the unsubstantiated leap to a "fascistic campaign"?
My point is that while any filmmaker would be irked if people were seeing their film and another was getting credit, these producers seem to be cynically sowing the seeds of paranoia in order to have a fallback if the movie does tank. In a few months, if it's still in the red, they can point back to this and say "See? It's those fascistic theater owners and managers (?), conservatively-angled satire can't get a fair shake, etc, etc." On the webstie they also ask people to report incidents of promotional posters missing from theaters (I rather doubt that theaters are under any obligation to decorate their theater lobby in any particular way, and besides, they tend to advertise coming attractions, not currently-playing ones) and problems with picture and sound (thus inviting every malcontent who though the picture wasn't sharp enough or the audio didn't seem surroundsound enough to join in the paranoia).
If the evidence for this was based on anything other than the filmmaker's word, it might seem interesting to look into. It seems, instead, like the desperate gambit of a production company that is not seeing the numbers they hoped for.
Who would have dreamed that when socialism came to the U.S.A.
it would be brought not by Bolsheviks in blue jeans but Wall Street
bankers in Gucci loafers?
I won't believe it until
October 7, 2008 - 10:17 ET by balboaI won't believe it until there's a lot more hard evidence. I highly doubt these types of conspiracies.
I went Saturday...
October 7, 2008 - 08:24 ET by Spikerbut unfortunately I think my ticket stubs went through the washing machine (doesn't everyone just stick them in their pocket without looking at them anyway?).
Democrats, hippies, liberals, socialists, communists, marxists..
October 7, 2008 - 08:38 ET by JWFAll cut from the same cloth. All feel it is fair to lie to further a cause.
Odd, the koran says it is fair to lie to the infidels. Odd, indeed. I think I know why the democrats love the islamic terrorists now.
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
In other news, George
October 7, 2008 - 09:14 ET by PeskyDaneIn other news, George Clooney got his ass kicked at the box office by the kid from "Growing Pains" over the weekend. How humiliating.
See the movie
October 7, 2008 - 10:11 ET by iveseenitallSee the movie.See the movie. It's a work of art! It'll make you feel that all is not lost. And it tells the truth! The TRUTH, so hated by "liberals"! God Bless America!
NEVER,NEVER trust a "liberal"
Thanks Iveseenitall, I'm
October 7, 2008 - 12:32 ET by PeskyDaneThanks Iveseenitall, I'm taking my wife on Saturday. We were going to go this weekend, but we were sort of OBE (that's "Overcome By Events," for those of you who haven't been to basic training) as expailned here. Hee, hee, shamless plug for my honey's blog.
Loved the movie
October 7, 2008 - 11:09 ET by allamericangirlMy husband and I went to see this movie Saturday expecting a small turnout but to our amazement the theater was completely full. We were shocked by this because we live in California. I could tell the crowd loved the movie by their laughter and at the end spontaneous applause broke out. Another shocker for me was while showing previews of the upcoming Bush bashing Oliver Stone movie called W the whole crowd started to booooo and I heard a guy behind me yell hatchet job! Even here in California there are conservatives that are sick of the Hollywood crap movies and thrilled to have a movie that we could enjoy. The movie and the unexpected experience was great.
"Liberalism is a mental disorder" -Michael Savage
Same in Gilbert AZ
October 7, 2008 - 11:19 ET by CarlosSMy wife and I went Saturday afternoon..., first movie I've seen in 3 years! Theatre about 3/4 full..., enjoyed the movie.
At the end of the W. ad
October 7, 2008 - 15:21 ET by HermanoAt the end of the W. ad they say, "See it in theaters on ..." I blurted out "Yeah, right" to which the people within earshot began laughing. I enjoyed American Carol as well. Probably 200 or more people in the theater at a 6:35 showing - most 40-70 yo.
The Newsbusters Comments Crew: Saving the Environment - One Ribeye at a Time! h/t Dr_Liberty
AMC Quail Springs Oklahoma City
October 7, 2008 - 12:49 ET by jbenton757Every Sunday my wife and I go to the movies, We went this last Sunday to see another movie as we planned on going to see American Carol this next weekend. Anyway before this movie we watched all of the previews for the other movies playing, and although they showed the previews for "W" they did not show the previews for American Carol, nor did they have any posters advertising it. It's kind of funny, because when I purchased my tickets at the window, the ticket seller said a lot of people were going to see American Carol. BTW when the wereshowing previews of "W" there were a lot of people turning their heads back up at the camera, they looked a little perturbed.
Retired Grunt
USArmy
It happened to us
October 7, 2008 - 21:06 ET by KC BeachMy wife and I took the kids Saturday, bought two tickets for Bev Hills Chihuahua and two for American Carol. My wife dug the stubs out of her purse today and apparently she and I saw Nick and Nora, at least that is what the tickets said.
Well, be sure and report it
October 7, 2008 - 22:20 ET by Warner Todd HustonWell, be sure and report it to the website linked in the story.
my goodness,this sounds like
October 9, 2008 - 13:06 ET by patmac49my goodness,this sounds like a oliver stone conspiricy theory..fooling around with movie attendence...who care who sees what movie..i mean titanic was a huge sucess and i thought it was below average..and you could not disguise the ending...what i mean is who cares ..