Congressman and presidential candidate Ron Paul’s December 4 appearance on "The View" did not lead to the predictable agreement between Joy Behar and Whoopi Goldberg on Iraq, but a very strong disagreement over abortion. Whoopi Goldberg, who previously boasted about marching in a NARAL rally with Katie Couric, alluded to her confrontation with Elisabeth Hasselbeck asserted without doubt that "nobody makes this decision lightly."
Co-host Joy Behar occupied most of the segment attacking Paul’s abortion position. Though Behar admitted she believes killing a child immediately before birth is "murder" she asked "what about the first month?" and about the "mental state" or "health" line that many partial birth abortion apologists use.
Ron Paul then asked Behar if she would be okay with a law "that says abortion should be done no later than at six weeks gestation." Behar avoided the question claiming she is "not happy with abortion, period."
The transcript of the exchange is below.
BEHAR: I have to hit you with my first question because we discussed it in the in "Hot Topics." I’ve read all of your stuff and I know that you want limited government. Get government out of my life. Right?
REPRESENTATIVE RON PAUL (R-TX): Good idea!
BEHAR: What about Roe v. Wade? I don’t want the government telling me what to do with my body. How do you justify that?
PAUL: Well, I think the question is whether a baby that is unborn, that weighs eight pounds, seventh, eighth month of gestation has any rights. Is it a person?
BEHAR: But what about the first month or when you usually get an abortion?
PAUL: You’re not for all abortion.
BEHAR: I don’t know. It would have to come up in a specific case.
PAUL: So you, so you don’t want me to do an abortion on somebody that is an eight pound, normal baby.
BEHAR: No, of course not. But if-
PAUL: So you’re not for abortion really.
BEHAR: No wait a minute. But if the woman wants to abort a ch- a baby at eight months, something’s wrong either with her mental state or her health, so that-
PAUL: But the law, the law says they can do that.
BEHAR: Yeah, but the law should. It should-
PAUL: The mother, if it’s her body, why can’t she do it?
BEHAR: Shouldn’t it be between the doctor and the woman?
GOLDBERG: That’s, that’s not exactly true sir. That’s not exactly true. There is a limit as to when you can have an abortion. I believe that’s the truth.
PAUL: All the way through the third trimester.
GOLDBERG: I don’t think, I don’t think so anymore.
PAUL: Roe versus Wade allows it in a third trimester. It dictates to the doctor what he can do in the first trimester, second trimester, and third trimester. So it is the law of the land.
BEHAR: So are you not against, just you like Roe v. Wade, except to a point. Is that what your position is?
PAUL: No, I don’t like the Federal government doing anything.
PAUL: So, I want the states to deal with it.
BEHAR: But what’s the- if you’re against abortion what’s the difference who’s doing it, the states or the government?
PAUL: Well, there’s a big difference because the Constitution does given them- the states deal with murder and violence and manslaughter.
BEHAR: Okay, so it’s not a moral position. It’s more of a particular position.
PAUL: It’s a legal position.
SHEPHERD: The states deal with it.
PAUL: It’s a legal position because I honor and respect the rights of the mother, but your home too, your home is your castle. I don’t want any government in your home, no searches without warrant-
PAUL: -no cameras. But you can’t kill your baby in your home.
BEHAR: Well, no, but that’s murder. That’s different.
PAUL: Yeah, okay, but somebody sees this- I have, as a physician, I’ve been trained to bring life into the world. And if I do harm to the baby, I get sued. So the baby is alive and has rights, right?
GOLDBERG: Well, let me ask you this: so what about-
BEHAR: Well, yes but that’s very unusual. What an unusual situation. We’re talking about girls who are in trouble and they want to have an abortion the first month.
PAUL: Would you be okay with a law that says abortion should be done no later than at six weeks gestation?
BEHAR: Look, I’m not happy with abortion period, you know?
PAUL: Well, nobody is.
BEHAR: Nobody is, but that’s not the point.
GOLDBERG: Well, that’s, that’s the idea. But here’s my question: If you make a decision that this is where you need to go, because I said to somebody else earlier on this show, no one makes this decision lightly. This is not someone somebody says "oh I think I’ll go get this." This is not a fun thing to go do. So someone has come to that place to make that decision is because it really needs to be there. Now, I think you should be able to get some help if you’re reaching out for somebody like that. What bothers me is that there is no one who says "here’s what we can do" because, you know, we have all of these children. What are we going to do with them? If everybody has the kids. Nobody, the churches don’t want to take them. Nobody wants to put them in the thing- no I want to finish the thing, period.
BEHAR: Alright, answer.
PAUL: Well, the question is whether abortion should be done on demand and who controls it. What you’re saying is a very difficult problem that we can deal with. And the more difficult a problem that we have, the more you want it to be held locally. Before Roe versus Wade, before it was legalized across the board, on demand, states did, I saw it happening, abortions were done on rare circumstances and it was done with caution.. There was a recognition , there was a recognition that life was valuable. And I don’t think anybody is going to win this. You’re not even for abortion, for anybody, anytime, a minute before birth. You don’t want to abort these normal babies.
BEHAR: No, that’s murder.
PAUL: At the same time, I don’t think we’ll ever reach the stage where there will be no abortions. But I want, I want to sort this out-
PAUL: -the way the Constitution mandates and that is at the local level.