Open Thread

By NB Staff (Bio | Archive)
August 25, 2008 - 09:10 ET

For general discussion and debate. Possible talking point: the Iraq exit game.

Thoughts? Is this doable? Given the timing of this announcement right before the DNC, who does this help: McCain, or Obama?

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It helps Iraq

August 25, 2008 - 09:14 ET by Cool Arrow

It helps Iraq, and America, and McCain.

I guess it helps Obama too since he could possibly be in a position to sell the Iraqis out depending on their National strength.

I ♣ my seal

It helps McCain if he is the one stressing it.

August 25, 2008 - 09:17 ET by thedudesblog

Whoever takes ownership of this first will be the one to benefit. McCain should be out there right now, telling everybody with a pen, that this is happening because of the surge strategy he pushed for and that it would have happened even sooner if the Bush Administration and Don Rumsfeld had listened to him 4 years ago. Don't let Obama have this one, John!

Just to keep to the facts...

August 25, 2008 - 09:29 ET by Bruzilla

Just to keep to the facts... McCain never pushed for the surge strategy. All he ever did was speak up in support of it. It was Condi Rice and her folks who developed the plan and fought through Rumsfeld to get it put into play. All during that time, McCain did nothing to help them out.

zilla

August 25, 2008 - 09:40 ET by Cool Arrow

Are you sure about that?

I ♣ my seal

Ohhhh... those facts...

August 25, 2008 - 09:50 ET by Sergeant ROCK

Ohhhh... those facts...

Well Rock

August 25, 2008 - 09:54 ET by Cool Arrow

This Internet sh*t works pretty good once you get the hang of it.

I ♣ my seal

Internet?

August 25, 2008 - 09:57 ET by Sergeant ROCK

"Internet? Is that thing still around?"

- Homer Simpson

Yeah Rock

August 25, 2008 - 10:02 ET by Cool Arrow

The Internet. Some guy with really close ties to Armand Hammer (known communist) and Occidental Petroleum invented it.

I ♣ my seal

ca, Mccain was right

August 25, 2008 - 09:55 ET by larry on LI

the proof is in the details, read the negitive comments to the article vs his proposal.

Larry

August 25, 2008 - 10:00 ET by Cool Arrow

McCain was absolutely right. That's why I posted a refuting link to Bruzilla's post.

I ♣ my seal

McCain was right that we

August 25, 2008 - 12:48 ET by Bruzilla

McCain was right that we needed more troops, but as your own link shows he never provided any strategy for what do with them... which is why his cries for more troops went unheeded. The mere act of putting more boots on the ground wasn't going to do a bit of good unless there was a strategy behind it. And it was Condi Rice, not McCain, who developed that strategy while McCain was nothing more than a cheerleader.

Yeah... I'm sure about

August 25, 2008 - 12:45 ET by Bruzilla

Yeah... I'm sure about that. All that McCain ever did was call for more troops to be deployed, which is exactly what your link verifies. He never offered any kind of strategy for what to do with them. Condi and her folks developed the "Clear, Hold, and Build" strategy that became The Surge. Condi was the one who fought Rumsfeld to make it happen. Like I said, McCain had nothing to do with The Surge strategy other than speak up for it in the Senate.

Actually, Gen Petraeus

August 25, 2008 - 21:50 ET by sick_puppy

Actually, Gen Petraeus helped develop the clear, hold and build strategy. The USMC has a long history of the clear, hold and build practice.

Sin Loy.

If you can't remember . . . the claymore is probably pointed at you. Murphy’s Laws of Combat

Carter, Kennedy, and Pelosi - A Winning Team /Sarcasm Off

August 25, 2008 - 09:34 ET by Free Stinker

Carter, Kennedy, and Pelosi are speaking tonight!

Here is a free commercial idea for the GOP. Take clips from tonight, and then run clips from the GOP convention Tuesday night when Thompson, Palin, and Steele are speaking.

And now, today's Shrub

August 25, 2008 - 09:40 ET by Roger the Shrubber

And now, today's Shrub Report®:

Please help this shrubber out: for years the Left has ridiculed Dick Cheney as Bush's running mate, and ridiculed McCain for his "advanced" age. Now, however, being a "Cheney", and being older and wiser is suddenly a positive for The Hopeful Changer? Has this shrubber been pruning in the hot sun too much this weekend?

Sixty-Fours years ago today, Paris was liberated. In 1814, the British burnt down the White House.

You stay classy, New York City!

How about a Everybody Hearts Socialism (or else) update? See, folks? It works!

God sends a shot across the DNC bow?

An Egyptian undocumented visitor of unknown and indiscriminate religion was busted for innocently test-flying a drone airplane on Long Island.

Hell, even the teamster-thug governor of PA knows the media is in the tank for The Hopeful Changer. Amusingly, the same media that carried water of the Clintonistas for years ended up biting them in the buttocks.

Metal God Rob Halford turns 57, axeslinger Vivian Campbell turns 46 today, and Buggle-licious Geoff Downes turns 56.

The NYT rewards the exposure of Libyan and Iranian nuclear programs by exposing the people who helped the CIA. Thanks, a-holes!

This is funny, er, sad, on so many different levels…

Biden has been the VP candidate for only three days, and already the scandals are creeping out of the woodwork.

Here is the useless website of the day (pardon the language). Louisville is full of sick mofos…

Pakistan bans the Taliban.

Could this be a 21st-century form of Darwinism?

The Left are already making excuses for The Hopeful Changer's upcoming defeat…

Today's Religion of Peace Update. While we are on the subject of the 7th-century cult, douchebags like Truthie have a friend at the BBC.

Today's Global Warming Update.

The Story of the Week.

The greatest actor ever turns 78 today.

And, finally, Obama announces his VP.

Mimicry is the sincerest form of flattery!

August 25, 2008 - 09:55 ET by

RogertheShrubber,

Having a wiser elderly statesman on the ballot helped create a stronger foundation for a charismatic bag of air...Let's face facts- VP Cheney helped President Bush the whole way. You gotta think what would have happened if the old ticker in VP Cheney stopped working all together in the first term, would there have been a second? We are lucky to have VP Cheney or else this country would be in bad shape, real bad shape...

Ubercon

In 1814, the British

August 25, 2008 - 09:58 ET by Jack Bauer

And thank goodness you guys don't bear a grudge! Whole Lotta Love, baby... Go Jimmy!

Stop it, Jackson! You are

August 25, 2008 - 10:14 ET by Roger the Shrubber

Stop it, Jackson! You are being too sexy for this thread!

Sean Connery had enough

August 25, 2008 - 10:20 ET by Dan The Man 2

Sean Connery had enough acting ability to make Zardoz watchable. It was a stupid premise seemed to be combining hippie psycodelic nonesense with the Prisoner type images. Typical 70's hogwash.

Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark.

Do you think he was

August 25, 2008 - 10:56 ET by Roger the Shrubber

Do you think he was convincing as a Spaniard in Highlander?

Damn, I love Connery!

No, but he has this dash

August 25, 2008 - 13:01 ET by Dan The Man 2

No, but he has this dash and such that made him so good in that role. It was also pretty much unbeleiveable from a history standpoint also. His blade was forged by a Japanese master? Japan had at that time a strict rule to kill all foreiners. The Samuri were experts at cutting limbs off including the head.

Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark.

Another masterful bit of Rove trickery

August 25, 2008 - 17:53 ET by nkviking75

Re: The Excuses item

That e-e-e-e-vil master of trickery, Karl Rove (p-tui!), tricked the Democrats again in 2000. Not only did he engineer the theft of that election by Chimpy McHitler; he also fooled the Democrats into demanding new voting machines all over the country. And who benefits? The e-e-e-vil Diebold, known Republican supporters, and the GOP, who get all the phantom votes that Diebold has rigged into their machines.

That evil, evil Rove!

(sarcasm off)

When you put the clowns in charge, don't be surprised when a circus breaks out.

Rove obviously used his

August 26, 2008 - 06:45 ET by Roger the Shrubber

Rove obviously used his eveeeeel time machine to go back in time and implant microchips into every Liberals' brain at birth, to program them to THINK they are NOT doing his eveeel bidding.

How devious! How diabolical! How fiendish!

Hey, Maliki...here's your invoice!

August 25, 2008 - 09:44 ET by

You want us off your property? It ain't your property until you pay up. You'll need to make sure the Iraqi governmental contracts for procurement of necessary items are solely American. No Russkies, Chinamen, Iranians, or any other "foreigners" are able to receive Iraqi funding. You want oil, we'll be glad to help you pump. You want the latest military equipment, we'll be happy to oblige in helping with your defenses. You want stuff built, our construction teams will be there for you. We won't let you down. Just look at our history in dealing with you since the onset of the war. Hey Maliki, Freedom is never free...you gotta pay to play! We'll be great partners for years to come...

God Bless the US!

Ubercon

I don't know the specifics

August 25, 2008 - 09:44 ET by Free Thinker

I don't know the specifics of this plan, but I sure hope someone had the foresight to make sure we maintain bases in Iraq. Does anyone know?

Bases in Iraq?

August 25, 2008 - 09:55 ET by Sergeant ROCK

When you see and hear the jabber about bailing out of Iraq, they always use terms like regular or conventional forces.

SOCOM will remain there for years to come.

IF

August 25, 2008 - 09:52 ET by JWF

This is good news if things continue to improve.

I, as a militant* as the guy in the cubicle next door mistakenly calls me, think that we should have gotten some military bases out of the deal. We have forward permanent bases close to every potential hotspot except the Middle East.

It helps Obamanama in the minds of the loopy loony left I would suppose. I think most people with a brain realizes Obama had nothing to do with a victory in Iraq.

*I am a military man, 20 year veteran, not a militant

According to the MSM, this

August 25, 2008 - 09:55 ET by robert108

According to the MSM, this will help Obama, because they will just lie about it.

Middle East

August 25, 2008 - 10:14 ET by iveseenitall

The fewer Americans there when Iran drops nukes in the Middle East, the better. Then again, we may have Barry Obama around to"talk" them out of it. I hear he's already found those old knee pads with which he used to play b-ball. He's got to be comfortable as he crawls in front of his mighty Arab pals.

BTW, here are two American political parties arguing over who will take "credit" for the withdrawal of our brave young people from a fight that was worth fighting, which will be demonstrated as time goes by. As that great American thinker, Thomas Sowell, has stated, once Iran drops a nuke, it's all over. He says it's like rowing towards the falls on the Niagra river. Once you go over, there's no going back and nothing else matters. Obama, Kennedy, Carter, Pelosi, et.al. are disgusting human beings who will bring us over the falls and then it will be too late. Beware as you watch these creeps at their convention (if you can stomach watching it, that is).

NEVER,NEVER trust a "liberal"

This could be very bad news for Iraq

August 25, 2008 - 10:03 ET by c5then

If this is indeed no foreign troops in the country at all by the end of 2011, then in 2012 Iran will conquer Iraq. Iraqi troops may be able to deal with the millitias and the foreign terrorists by 2011, but they will be no match for the Iranian military making an all-out invasion. By then Iran will have atomic weapons, so our reaction will be similar to the Russia/Georgia conflict happening right now.

The day that "politician" became a career choice is the day we started losing the Republic. Let's get it back! Alan Keyes '08.

Appeasement vs. Action

August 25, 2008 - 10:16 ET by Sergeant ROCK

It depends on who is President.

A President Barrack Hussein Obama will insist on making it an U.N. issue and will restrain from unilateral action by the U.S.

A President John Sidney McCain III understands the seriousness of the situation and would more likely act unilaterally if need be.

And don't forget the Israelis...

We bet to differ!

August 25, 2008 - 10:16 ET by JWF

The Iranian military is a joke.

Here is their idea of an offensive move in the Iran/Iraq war. Massive waves of unarmed bodies attempting to overrun the enemy lines.

They make up stories about new planes, new missiles, and weird new underwater missile type torpedoes.

If it weren't for Russia's outdated military technology, they would not have much in the way of anything at all.

Outdated RUSSIAN military technology?!?

August 25, 2008 - 10:36 ET by

JWF,

Your statement about the Iranian military's arsenal seemed a little misleading. After a little fact checking, over the years Iran has a number of weapons from different countries including the US(remember the Shah), the Iranian Military mostly relies on its own military/ industrial complex by reverse engineering weapons from other countries. I have to disagree with you on a number of points since the Iranian threat should not be discounted as a bunch of unarmed religious zealots using human waves to overwhelm enemy lines. The Iranian threat is real and we should use overwhelming force in annihilating them from the planet. We will need their resources at some point so we should use precision tactical nuclear weapons to disrupt the mullahs' power base. The rest of the population will submit to our occupation or join their fallen mullahs.

Ubercon

Well, if Iran is still

August 25, 2008 - 10:55 ET by Roger the Shrubber

Well, if Iran is still relying on US weapons from the Shah era, I am really afraid of them now!

Iran military

August 25, 2008 - 10:57 ET by Cool Arrow

They can't even get parts on eBay anymore.

I ♣ my seal

shrubbo -- Didn't the Shah

August 25, 2008 - 12:02 ET by Jack Bauer

shrubbo -- Didn't the Shah come to power in the 1950s?

My God, the fanatic Iranians will be able to club GIs to death with those giant Motorola Field Radios!

10-4 Smokey Allah!

True dat, Jackson. I hear

August 25, 2008 - 12:45 ET by Roger the Shrubber

True dat, Jackson.

I hear Iran's intrepid Panzerwerfer squadrons are the pride of their army. And don't get me started on their crack Gatling Gun Brigade!

Liberals...

August 25, 2008 - 13:03 ET by

...and their jokes. It's obvious, you all think by hiding behind your momma's apron and joking about the weakness of another country that your safe from getting punched in the face. Come out from behind your momma's apron and fight the good fight. Iran is a threat and we need to prepare ourselves for the next war with them. We should begin the process of rebuilding our forces and using them more effectively. Go ahead and make your pansy jokes about how weak the Iranian military MIGHT be. When they decide to launch, we need to stop them in their tracks, obliterate them and seize their resources. Oh, you're all conservatives? I couldn't tell since it seems like you're resting on your laurels. How about promoting a more positive approach to rebuilding our armed forces? The Russkies are already showing our weaknesses by attacking our ally as we sit back and watch from behind our momma's apron...

Ubercon

Please assure me you are

August 25, 2008 - 13:14 ET by Jack Bauer

Please assure me you are not seriously calling Roger the Shrubber and my bad self, "liberals.

Hey liberal balboa, liberal jer, et al please tell him!

Nah -- this cannot be. But if so, my flabber is totally gasted, man.

Calling it like I see it.

August 25, 2008 - 13:26 ET by

Diminishing the threat reduces the funding. Many pansy liberals are saying the same thing you are spewing...something like "the Iranian Military is ineffective and incapable of going to war with the United States Military therefore we should reduce our forces, stand down and use diplomacy." That's pansy talk. We should be on a war footing with all of the terrorist supporting countries. It's time to kick some asses and we need to show the threat is real. So, got jokes? It doesn't do any good in taking the fight to the enemy when we have a reduction in funding by the dimobats. This is the time for the GOP to seize the day and promote a stronger military through more funding.

Ubercon

August 25, 2008 - 13:55 ET by MrShy

"We should be on a war footing with all of the terrorist supporting countries."

Bush said it best, days after 9/11 in my hometown, eloquently and firmly...

"You're either with us, or with the terrorists."

Unfortunately, even Bush and his administration has waned on seeing through with this determined, correct vision, in large part to overwhelming PC pressure politically and people's inherent tendency to grow complacent and quickly forget horrible events. Of course, we can thank the liberals overrunning our media who have been grossly complicit in helping to reprogram us into believing all is well and fine now.

* * * SOCKS THE CAT '08 * * *
For REAL Change

Over-running, reprogramming...who?

August 25, 2008 - 14:21 ET by

MrShy,

"Our Media" was overrun by Liberals? When was it Conservative? You got me on this- "Of course, we can thank the liberals overrunning our media who have
been grossly complicit in helping to reprogram us into believing all is
well and fine now."

I'm assuming you were using sarcasm in your statement.

I haven't been "reprogrammed"! Bush is a pandering politician like the rest of them. As for the 9/11 speech, Bush's words are hollow now. He hasn't kept his word, it's time for real Americans to take up the fight and kick some ass. At least Cheney was able to keep him in line. Now that's a real man!

Ubercon

Loosely wired

August 25, 2008 - 17:48 ET by JWF

Ubercon,

For being an uber-conservative, you seem a little loosely wired.

Iran has been a thorn in our side since 1979. Why the big impassioned plea to go kick some ass now?

You seem to have an intimate understanding of the liberal mind. Why is that? Because they confuse the hell out of me.

Seriously, jacking up the military budget, starting wars with everyone apparently, conscription, and building a wall on the Canadian border? It is called limited government for a reason. That is a conservative principle. How are you gonna pay for all of that?

This is a site about liberal media bias. We make jokes. Live with it.

Wow, somebody woke up in

August 25, 2008 - 17:31 ET by Roger the Shrubber

Wow, somebody woke up in his underground bunker all cranky and pissy. Am I supposed to take you seriously?

Didn't think so.

Have fun playing your games.

Relax, someone gave Stephen

August 25, 2008 - 17:42 ET by mandrake

Relax, someone gave Stephen Colbert a logon.

LOL!

August 25, 2008 - 17:43 ET by Free Stinker

LOL!

Exactly what I thought,

August 26, 2008 - 06:42 ET by Roger the Shrubber

Exactly what I thought, too, Mr. Drake.

Don't get me wrong.

August 25, 2008 - 10:59 ET by JWF

We need to put the smackdown on Iran and when we do, I will be first in line saying "It is about damn time".

We have retired the planes that were in service when the Shah took over because they are outdated.

Those reverse engineered missiles need to be fueled before launch. Boom, they will never be launched.

Those reverse engineered underwater missles that can only move in a straight line, they need a launch platform. It will be sunk before it ever can lauch an underwater misslie.

I was responding to the comment about Iran invading Iraq. Don't forget we trained the Iraqi army, we are supplying them for the most part, and never forget, these guys have experience, just like our guys.

The Georgians were trained by the US...

August 25, 2008 - 11:48 ET by

JWF,

...and were not that effective against the Russkies. My point was to NOT discount the Iranian military threat. I don't think you realize just how flippant statements about the weakness of an actual military threat could have a dramatic impact on our own readiness for such a threat. If you continue to speak about how easy it is to conquer an enemy like Iran, the funding for our military fades away. We need more money thrown into the military/industrial complex to thwart any threat whether real or imaginary. Iran continues to probe our forces by any means...real or imaginary. It looks like they've got you believing in fake missles and torpedoes...what happens when it turns out to be real? Are you going to say "Oops, didn't see that coming..." just like the freakin' liberals. Don't be a fool, support more military funding for the Iranian threat. It's time to kick their ass back to another stone age.

Ubercon

I think we are quibbling here.

August 25, 2008 - 12:52 ET by JWF

No one in the Pentagon is listening to you and me.

It will be easy to put the smackdown on Iran. Another occupation like Iraq is what no one wants.

The missiles and torpedoes are not fake. Just woefully outdated.

The Georgians consisted of a military of 38,00 against a military of 1,000,000 Russians. Not a good comparison.

The Iranian military is still a joke. The biggest threat is their use of terrorism and proxies.

I most certainly am not advocating reduced military spending. More More More. It is one of the few wise uses of government money.

Then advocate it...

August 25, 2008 - 13:16 ET by

JWF,

Show the threat and the money will follow. Diminish the threat and the pansies will withdraw the funding. It's that simple. If you need more security, you show why you need more by showing the threat is real. Case in point, we have begun to finally secure the northern border with Canada. It's been reported in the MSM how ludicrous this venture is and wasteful of government money on a threat that does not exist. The pictures show an empty street with a painted border crossing across it. No Guards, no fortifications, zippo. Terrorists could just walk right into our country and set up shop for another attack. The threat is real. We need to spend more and we need to show the average Joe why we need his money to do so. Don't diminish the threat!

Ubercon

You moved the argument again.

August 25, 2008 - 13:32 ET by JWF

Ubercon,

You moved the argument again without conceding a point or having one of your points conceded.

How in heavens name did we get to Canada?

The difficulty with Iran

August 25, 2008 - 13:30 ET by Blonde

Is their ability to disrupt the Persian Gulf shipping shut down the Straights of Hormuz. They've been throwing resources at their Navy.

We must remain vigilant.

Remember, Iran & Iraq went at it for eight years....and never forget, they don't value the lives of their soldiers the way we do.

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

Thank you Blonde.

August 25, 2008 - 13:48 ET by JWF

The problem with Iran was and still is the straights of Hormuz, and that is why they get away with the use of proxies and the use of terrorism.

No one is diminishing their threat. It is hust that no one has figured out how to vanquish them without destroying the global economy.

Yea Blonde,

August 25, 2008 - 14:10 ET by upcountrywater

One of my worries is a few of these, out fitted with an H-bomb, payload on a one way jihad journey to our shores.

Liberals62%

IranianUranium

Apparently,

August 25, 2008 - 23:27 ET by HillbillyKing

1/2 a trillion dollars isn't enough to remain ahead of the Iranians , right?

Ok, I'll play along, so where do we get the money to increase the defense budget? I mean we obviously need to increase it to keep our edge on the Iranians, so do we increase taxes by what 5%, 10% or what?

If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you.

Don Marquis 1878-1937

Um, Uber

August 25, 2008 - 23:04 ET by HillbillyKing

if your zeal is legit, then I applaud you. But, I also did some fact checking and, well, looks like Iran isn't really much of a threat.

Take a look at this article.

And then take a closer look at the Iranian Navy here.

And compare them to the US Navy here.

As for advocating preemptive nuclear strikes, that's just plain nuts.

If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you.

Don Marquis 1878-1937

perhaps...

August 25, 2008 - 10:38 ET by c5then

But, Iran has been recieving billions of extra $$ from their oil sales over the past few years. That buys a lot of updated military equipment.

The Iranian military may be "a joke" to the US military, but it would still be larger, better trained and better equiped than an Iraqi military in 2012.

And the Georgia invasion shows that the world treats nuclear powers far differently then non-nuclear powers. Contrast it with the response to the Kuwait invasion or the Bosnia/Serbian conflict.

The day that "politician" became a career choice is the day we started losing the Republic. Let's get it back! Alan Keyes '08.

c5...

August 25, 2008 - 10:46 ET by Clear thinker

All that equipment and training the Iranians have don't mean squat if they act like Saddams army did when the bombs started dropping.

Making Fun of AGW http://giovanniworld.wordpress.com/

45 Communist Goals for America http://www.nationmakers.com/com_goal

5 years and waiting for the outcome...

August 25, 2008 - 11:56 ET by

CT,

With Iran, I hope we get the job done more quickly with a larger force this time around...too few for the Iraq invasion. We need to bomb them for a couple of months, secure the oilfields more effectively and destroy the mullahs' power base. Kick some asses first to scare the living crap out of the neighbors and then get down to the business of creating a democracy whether they want it or not. Peace through overwhelming force!

Ubercon

Self-inflicted

August 25, 2008 - 10:46 ET by Sergeant ROCK

And the Georgia invasion shows that the world treats nuclear powers far differently then non-nuclear powers.

Which is the number one reason why these despots pursue nuclear weapons in the first place!

The sooner it can be proven that you have a nuclear weapon, the sooner the U.S. will treat you with kid gloves.

However, Israel will not be compelled to follow our lead on the issue of Iran.

Thankfully.

Still beg to differ

August 25, 2008 - 11:24 ET by JWF

larger, better trained and better equiped than an Iraqi military in 2012.

Larger, maybe, but full of conscripts. Don't forget, the Iraqi army is, just like us, now full of dedicated volunteers.

Better trained, no. Nothing beats combat experience, and the Iraqi army is getting that.

Better equipped, no. Doesn't Iran have the same Soviet defensive radar that Syria had when Israel snuck in and took out a NK type reactor?

Iran is still a thorn in our side, and we spend $400+ billion a year. Some of that goes to retired guys like me. Thank you. I am ready to serve if needed.

And no, we treat Nuclear Powered BIG players differently, not chumps like Iran. That is right Iran, I called you a chump. You know why? Cuz your'e a chump, that is why.

Dedicated volunteers?!?

August 25, 2008 - 12:08 ET by

JWF,

Would you consider a soldier with multiple deployments to Iraq and a indefinite extension of his or her service requirements a dedicated volunteer or a conscripted volunteer. Some on the left keep calling it a "backdoor" draft. How about reinstating the draft so we can give our dedicated service personnel a much needed break. We know how to create a soldier with a draft in place...we did it in the past...it's time to get everyone on board with this war on global terrorism. Why should just a few carry the burden for so many? Reinstate the draft!

Ubercon

We are moving further from the original argument.

August 25, 2008 - 13:05 ET by JWF

I believe it had something to do with Iran invading Iraq in 2012.

I was referring to Iraqi volunteers, who do not deploy to other countries.

As for our volunteers, let me tell you about the dirty little secret. We join to fight. It is called "my war". Granddad had his, Dad has his, Uncle had his.

Don't listen to the left. These guys are dedicated. They are good. Here is what they talk about when it comes to multiple deployments. Wow, how much things have changed since we were last here. No, no draft is needed. The left wants the draft so they can have a more powerful voice.

Screw the left!

August 25, 2008 - 13:44 ET by

Develop a better plan through a better draft. The Left knows its a facade they can hide behind for political points. I say we institute a draft and show the majority of Americans who support the war we can win with more troops. I bet you dollars to donuts that once you incorporate a draft, more Americans will enlist into the service of their choosing then be forced into a branch they didn't choose. We will have a war supported by all Americans sacrificing themselves for a better end result- Victory!

I have no doubt there are plenty of dedicated service personnel. I want to see them not carry so much of the load. Freedom isn't free. It's time for all Americans to step up and fight for Victory. That Victory will come from personal sacrifice and it's time for a draft, a better draft. We need to start increasing funding for a greater number of troops and the care for them starts now!

Ubercon

Please don't out right-wing-nutjob a fellow right-wing-nutjob

August 25, 2008 - 13:53 ET by JWF

The war is over. There is no need for a draft.

JWF

August 25, 2008 - 14:15 ET by MrShy

The more I read Ubercon, the more I'm turning into a nutjob myself, perhaps. :p But really, I'm not...

I just think we are INDEED the beacon-country that can -- and should -- take the lead in once and for all eradicating horribly danderous regimes. If not now, when? If not us, who?

* * * SOCKS THE CAT '08 * * *
For REAL Change

There will be an American

August 25, 2008 - 10:36 ET by Dan The Man 2

There will be an American military precense in Iraq for a long time. They know if we pull out then they will fall. They need our presense to stave off the big bad wolf. I believe as it has been all along pablum for those at home to get Maliki relected. This stance is nothing more than politics.

As far as who it helps, It helps both sides because of teh spin they will make. But, Iraq is becomming a democracy rthat can stand on its own. This is just a relization of the whole idea of the USA strategy for winning the peacein the first place. So if McCain set it up as the culmination of lots of hard work then he will win the battle.

Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark.

"I must be in the front

August 25, 2008 - 10:36 ET by MassConserv

"I must be in the front row."

Neither here nor there, but does Biden remind anyone else of Bob Uecker?

Was there being moved from

August 25, 2008 - 10:58 ET by Roger the Shrubber

Was there stuff being moved from a freezer?

Sounds more like something

August 25, 2008 - 12:07 ET by ricklail

Sounds more like something that would happen in Chicago. She called the mayor. The poor guy next door to her would never have been able to get through to the mayor.

If pro is the opposite of con what is the opposite of progress? Congress!

"The Hammer"

August 25, 2008 - 11:02 ET by ricklail

According to his lawyer it appears all the charges against Tom Delay will be dropped. You can read the article from the Austin Statesman. It could be a bit premature but the charges were bogus to being with.

If pro is the opposite of con what is the opposite of progress? Congress!

Imagine..

August 25, 2008 - 11:06 ET by Sergeant ROCK

.. my surprise? The underlying mission was accomplished.

"It's not whether it's true or not, but rather the seriousness of the charges."

Plans for the Next DNCC Stage

August 25, 2008 - 11:31 ET by AeroSpear

An inside source has told me the next stage design for the DNCC is in the works to top this years. He sent me a sketch: 2012 DNCC Stage Design

AeroSpear

August 25, 2008 - 11:39 ET by Cool Arrow

Y ou asked for it.

I have it on good authority this will be the motif. Now Imagine it's Hillary, and you get the picture.

I ♣ my seal

Now on my tomorrow's to-do

August 25, 2008 - 17:54 ET by AeroSpear

Now on my tomorrow's to-do list: retinal burn

IRAQ "pullout"

August 25, 2008 - 11:44 ET by stevepipe

My eldest son is just completing his third tour of IRAQ.

At this point we just need to withdraw. IRAQ will either stand on it's own (not likely) or it won't. We know there will be no support from OBAMA as President in the likelihood that IRAN moves in (highly likely).

Steve thank your son for

August 25, 2008 - 14:42 ET by Dan The Man 2

Steve thank your son for his service. I think that if in WWII the allies said France is free now, we should get out of the war then things might have turned out different. It took 10 years after the war ended to civilize Germany.

Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark.

Steve thank your son for

August 25, 2008 - 14:42 ET by Dan The Man 2

Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark.

Is Pelosi exhibiting the 1st stages of senile dementia?

August 25, 2008 - 12:36 ET by Jack Bauer

Is Nancy Pelosi the most STUPID person in Congress. A Speakatard, so to speaker?

Just when you think the effortlessly silly woman cannot be any more ignorant, this "ardent Catholic" starts making stuff up about the Catholic Church and abortion.

Saints alive, she doesn't know the difference between St. Thomas Aquinas and St. Augustine, whom she called a "Senator" at first try. While at the same time lecturing the Pope on Catholic doctrine, by the sound of it.

She babbles about the "doctors" of the Catholic Church not being able to say when "life begins." Huh?

Maybe the very 69 year old lady is having a SENIOR MOMENT. She's very forgetful. Senator Augustine, I mean Saint.

Jack I almost drove off the

August 25, 2008 - 12:53 ET by celator

Jack I almost drove off the read this morning when I heard Pelosi's statement about the Catholic Church not having decided when a person becomes a person. At the same time she presents herself as an ardent Catholic who has researched the "Doctors of the Church." Do you have any doubt she thinks the Doctors of the Church are physicians at the Vatican?

The Catechism writes extensively and deeply about the evils of abortion. All she has to do is read it. Here's a paragraph from the Catechism which summarizes:

"2274 Since it must be treated from conception as a person, the embryo must be
defended in its integrity, cared for, and healed, as far as possible, like any
other human being"

Even Hyppocrates in the 4th Century BC, following Natural Law, understood abortion is wrong. Here, from his Hypocratic Oath:

"To please no one will I prescribe a deadly drug nor give advice which may cause his death.

Nor will I give a woman a pessary to procure abortion.

But I will preserve the purity of my life and my arts."

Thanks for bring her statement up. More people need to call her out on it.

In addition, because of her ardent and unrepentant support of abortion, she has excommunicated herself (a penalty the Catechism is very clear about re abortion).

Ardent Catholic my foot!!!

The major media report only half the news. Why are they surprised they have only half the potential audience?

Hypocratic Oath

August 25, 2008 - 18:02 ET by LionKing

Apparently Hypocrates did not foresee the abonimations that so-called physicians would participate in.

How can any self-respecting person, let alone a physician, ever endorse or condone partial-birth abortions?

[It is time for the states to introduce the $10,000 abortion fee for the promotion of abortion alternatives and financial aide to adopting families.]

"How can any

August 25, 2008 - 22:31 ET by celator

"How can any self-respecting person, let alone a physician, ever endorse or condone partial-birth abortions?"

They cannot, if they have even the slightest hint of conscience. I've heard that Obama gave a speech lately to NARAL in which he stated to them that his very first action as President will be to make partial birth abortion on demand mandatory. I cannot yet verify that he said this because I can't find it anywhere, so it may not be true. Nevertheless I will continue to search for it.

The major media report only half the news. Why are they surprised they have only half the potential audience?

Jack, just wanted to thank

August 25, 2008 - 12:54 ET by bigtimer

Jack, just wanted to thank you real quick...

I watched that interview with the self-esteemed Brokaw yesterday and posted about how spooky it is that she is Speaker of House...in line as President yesterday.

It was the most infuriating interview with the crazy leftist witch that I have ever seen...from when conception begins regarding Obama's above my pay grade comment and she went on about the Catholic church and the third months BS to our need to drill here and be self-dependent, (which we need now more than ever the way the world is going now)...I thought of putting a link to the interview but figured nobody would pay much attention...

I am glad you have and I heard Rush talking about it today...

She is one wicked woman...God I wished we could get rid of her....she makes me just as angry as Hill ever has, in fact more so because of her power and what she has done in the House...which affects us all.

"America isn't the problem...America is the solution." ~ Rush Limbaugh

I heard that on Rush today

August 25, 2008 - 13:23 ET by motherbelt

I heard that on Rush today too, and my head nearly exploded! I really wish some well-known Cardinal in the US would put out a statement saying that Her Speakerness knows not of what she speaks.

The sad thing is that some ignorant ( I mean ignorant as in uninformed) people will believe this.

She really thinks the Church hasn't decided when life begins? Has she not heard of "Humanae Vitae"?

And in 2005, Pope Benedict XVI said this:

...the Church wishes to make her own contribution to the service of the human community, while pointing out the relation [sic] that binds each person to the Creator of all life and the source of the inalienable dignity of each person, from conception to life's natural end." (emphasis added)

And then to have her say The point is it that [when life begins] shouldn't have an impact
on a woman’s right to choose.”

Well that was just too much.

Your Speakerness: to quote Keith Olbermann:

SHUT THE HELL UP!!!

I am not Catholic and know

August 25, 2008 - 13:31 ET by ricklail

I am not Catholic and know very little about the Church. I do know that it was one of the popes that declared life began at concepetion.

If pro is the opposite of con what is the opposite of progress? Congress!

Jack

August 25, 2008 - 13:08 ET by ricklail

I have to disagree with you about Nazi Pelosi. Mel Watt is the most stupid member of Congress. I met him about 12 years ago and was very impressed with his lack of intelligence.

If pro is the opposite of con what is the opposite of progress? Congress!

rick -- take your word on

August 25, 2008 - 13:18 ET by Jack Bauer

rick -- take your word on that. But if that's true, I ssume it's one Mini-Watt of brainpower?

We can an agree that they don't have a conbined IQ capable of lighting a candle.

I agree with you on that.

August 25, 2008 - 13:27 ET by ricklail

I agree with you on that. If brains were dynamite they wouldn't have enough to blow their nose.

If pro is the opposite of con what is the opposite of progress? Congress!

The phrase we use in these

August 25, 2008 - 22:35 ET by celator

The phrase we use in these parts is: If brains were gasoline, so and so wouldn't have enough to run the generator in a lightning bug's butt.

Always makes me laugh when I have the chance to use it ;+}

The major media report only half the news. Why are they surprised they have only half the potential audience?

Jack...did you watch the

August 25, 2008 - 13:32 ET by bigtimer

Jack...did you watch the interview with Brokaw yesterday by chance....I also talked about her investment in Pickens Co. ect yesterday...

Actually Brokaw for Brokaw did a pretty good job, being the leftist that he is.

I just heard Rush bring up this very subject too...

She won't let us vote on drilling here...but she can invest in Boone Pickens company...no conflict of interest here...plus she had the audicity to down play the amount of money they invested, heck it was only between 50,000-100,000...why heck that's nothing to us peons out here now is it? As if one penny matters...it seems to be a conflict of interest to me.

If this was Newt as Speaker the msm would of already forced him to step down...no doubt about it.

"America isn't the problem...America is the solution." ~ Rush Limbaugh

Her Hole-in-the-Headness:

August 25, 2008 - 13:35 ET by Jack Bauer

Her Hole-in-the-Headness: Nancy Popesi.

Ding Dong

August 25, 2008 - 14:34 ET by dbo

Adding to the list, Pelosi is so stupid she doesn't even know that natural gas is a fossil fuel.

“I believe in natural gas as a clean, cheap alternative to fossil
fuels,” she said at one point. Natural gas “is cheap, abundant and
clean compared to fossil fuels,”

http://blogs.wsj.com...

dbo -- ha ha. I heard the

August 25, 2008 - 19:26 ET by Jack Bauer

dbo -- ha ha. I heard the dope say that. Remind me again how actual gas is going to replace gasoline and the internal combustion engine.

She sure puts the dem into demented!

Finally, a positive

August 25, 2008 - 12:49 ET by Roger the Shrubber

Finally, a positive side-effect of high gas prices: the crappy drivers are staying off the road! *insert female Asian drivers joke here*

Q. How many Saudi women

August 25, 2008 - 13:33 ET by Jack Bauer

Q. How many Saudi women does it take to drive a car?

A. None, silly. Muslim women aren't allowed to drive!!! But the fact that you asked the question proves you are racist, redneck, Islamophobic hater.

OK...I know I'm not

August 25, 2008 - 23:48 ET by bigtimer

OK...I know I'm not computer savvy and all that...but what the heck happened to the convention thread we were commenting on here that didn't go into the chat room?

...Or did it and is just went poof...

Help...I'm perplexed.

"America isn't the problem...America is the solution." ~ Rush Limbaugh

bigtimer

August 25, 2008 - 23:53 ET by Cool Arrow

We had loads of fun during Michelle's speech and following comments.

I ♣ my seal

Well great CA...so did some

August 26, 2008 - 00:05 ET by bigtimer

Well great CA...so did some of us since Pelosi speech on to Ma Belle...where is the thread...you didn't answer my question...or if you did, I missed the point and answer.

"America isn't the problem...America is the solution." ~ Rush Limbaugh

here's the link

August 26, 2008 - 00:09 ET by Cool Arrow

The chat link is in the body of the short thread at the top of the first NB page.

I ♣ my seal

Cool... Ok, now I am

August 26, 2008 - 00:26 ET by bigtimer

Cool...

Ok, now I am really confused adn trying to learn here....I didn't sign into the chat room but posted a lot on the thread...did that go automatically into the chat room...I didn't go into that on purpose for various reasons, but mainly a time difference with others and what I had to do at home while this was all going on...

when you say in this...the link is in the body of the short thread at the top of the first NB page...I don't see that anywhere you are talking about when I try to find this without your link, I don't know what that means exactly when you say the NB first page, what the heck is that?...your link takes me to the chat room thing...but not to the link I was talking about where I was talking to Goth ect on the thread that was about this subject, which I thought was not having to go into the chat room, but still a lot of us commented on what was going on...

Are you following me or am I making this more confusing?

..sorry to ramble on...ignore me if you want...I am confusing myself now.

"America isn't the problem...America is the solution." ~ Rush Limbaugh

No problem

August 26, 2008 - 00:43 ET by Cool Arrow

Every time you see something highlighted in red, it means it's a hot link.

Click here and when in the body of the text click on live chat thread (highlighted in red) in the body.

I ♣ my seal

Thanks Cool...and I

August 26, 2008 - 00:56 ET by bigtimer

Thanks Cool...and I understand about the red being a hot link...what I don't understand is where does one find the danged thread itself that let us know about the live chat without those of us who didn't go into the chat room and posted...are you following me?

Or were we already included in the chat room and didn't know it..where is the thread for the blog post for all to see here along with rest of todays blog posts...that you linked to where I did post?

I give up...and I don't blame you if you don't too.

"America isn't the problem...America is the solution." ~ Rush Limbaugh

no bt

August 26, 2008 - 00:59 ET by Cool Arrow

The thread when originally posted probably automatically generates a comments section which is separate from the chat it is announcing.

I ♣ my seal

CA... thank you...that is

August 26, 2008 - 01:04 ET by bigtimer

CA...

thank you...that is what I wanted to know...

so that is the reason it isn't visible here along with the rest of the blog posts....

I will sleep better now...

Ok...one other thing...just how the heck did you find the chat link to send me?

where and what did you do to get that...or did you have to be signed into the chat room tonight?

Just curious and I am done...

I am truly trying to learn here...as always.

thanks for your patience.

"America isn't the problem...America is the solution." ~ Rush Limbaugh

Like this

August 26, 2008 - 01:22 ET by Cool Arrow

click on the live chat thread link. It will open into the chatroom.

right click copy the info in the Firefox or explorer address bar http://newsbusters.org/chatrooms/chat/28

Then when you are posting a reply in another thread, you can highlight any word or group of words. Leave the words highlighted.

Left click on the link icon at the bottom. (there's one at the bottom of every reply box after the (indent right icon)

right click with cursor hovering over "Link URL" Left click paste.

Left click on Insert.

You've just created a hot link.

BTW, we can stay with this as long as you need. I slept all day and I'm home and up all night.

I ♣ my seal

Cool... ...nevemind... I

August 26, 2008 - 01:23 ET by bigtimer

Cool...

...nevemind...

I finally found what I was looking for and got it figured out...I am so relieved...I now know where you were trying to guide me in the first place....I never look at that place to the right with the NB heading ect...I thought you meant at the top of the page..anyway on my setting here it is on the right side of my page.

Thanks so much for your patience.

"America isn't the problem...America is the solution." ~ Rush Limbaugh

Good

August 26, 2008 - 01:28 ET by Cool Arrow

Glad to help. Usually my logic is too scattered to follow.

I ♣ my seal

Cool...Nah...we intersected

August 26, 2008 - 01:38 ET by bigtimer

Cool...Nah...we intersected there with each others posts...nevertheless you taught me some more and I saved it.

Thanks once again.

I truly don't know what I would of done or still wouldn't do without others to help me from the beginning on how to learn about this wonderful machine and what all to do...all I knew how to do when I came here was type...and turn on the computer.

I have bad habits with what I shouldn't do with the computer ect since I taught myself and wished I could get out of...but that is another story and seems to be too late...I just have learned to work my way around it...to a point...take to long to explain and nobody could follow it anyway...lol.

"America isn't the problem...America is the solution." ~ Rush Limbaugh