Update | 10: 30 AM: Scarborough acknowledges Biden's 'F' rating. At 8:36 AM EDT, Joe said that "a blog" had attacked him, noting Biden's 'F' rating from gun owners. View video here, which also contains Chuck Todd's statement that even Dems acknowledge Biden's speech "wasn't great."
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Joe Scarborough and the rest of the Morning Joe crew actually had my sympathy this morning. Amidst all the infighting at MSNBC, including demands for Joe's head in Olbermann-friendly circles, one could sense that the panel was on its best behavior. During the opening hour, a subdued David Shuster—who had openly fought with Joe just two days ago—was there, but just barely. A conciliatory Scarborough could not have been more enthusiastic in his praise for yesterday's DNC proceedings, from Bill's speech to the historic fact of the nomination of an African-American.
But if my impulse is to cut the Morning Joe folks some slack today, I have to draw the line at the whopper Joe got off at 6:45 AM, in which he claimed that Biden's presence on the ticket will help reassure gun owners that Obama won't take their weapons.
Click on the image to the right to see what Joe had to say, then compare it with Biden's record on gun ownership. As you'll see, the contrast couldn't be more stark.
JOE SCARBOROUGH: You know, we've been talking to union leaders all week, and yesterday we talked to a union leader that said --At that moment, the heartwarming image of Joe Biden's mother appeared on the screen, eliciting an understandable reaction.
MIKA BRZEZINSKI: A-w-w-w, his mom.Oh really? Let's go to the Biden record on the right to keep and bear arms. As I detailed in my column of August 19, Remember This When MSM Calls Biden a Moderate, here are Biden ratings from relevant groups from the most recent years in which they graded him:
SCARBOROUGH: Look at that mom. Saying "God, you know, it's not going to be easy winning Michigan and Ohio. Let's hope the party does something the next couple nights so I can tell my guys 'they're OK, vote for them.'" Because right now the union leaders are saying "is Obama going to take my guns from me?" And their answer is "we don't know." But Joe Biden helps so much in that respect.
- F - National Rifle Association
- F - Gun Owners of America
- 95% - Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence
Credit the Financial Times' Chrystia Freeland for injecting some sense of realism: "He helps, but I don't think he closes the deal for Barack Obama." I'll say.
—Mark Finkelstein is a NewsBusters contributing editor and host of Right Angle. Contact him at mark@gunhill.net.
Comments Policy
Do you get the feeling that
August 28, 2008 - 07:10 ET by motherbeltDo you get the feeling that Joe woke up with a horse's head in his bed this AM?
No not really
August 28, 2008 - 07:16 ET by 10ksnookerMore like his head up a horse's ...
That video of slo Joe OBiden calling the gun owner insane, is getting wide play. Don't joke around liberals, they have neither a brain nor a sense of humor.
Morning smo isn't worth the electricity costs.
He did mention that Keith
August 28, 2008 - 07:17 ET by Mark FinkelsteinHe did mention that Keith had invited him to go fishing out on the lake this afternoon.
He did mention that Keith
August 28, 2008 - 09:06 ET by Dan The Man 2He did mention that Keith had invited him to go fishing out on the lake this afternoon - I guess Keith has some concrete waders he wants Joe to try out.
Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark.
Fredo went fishing on the
August 28, 2008 - 09:51 ET by athoughtor2Fredo went fishing on the lake as well. Don't do it Joe!!!!!!
I think that was the point
August 28, 2008 - 10:32 ET by motherbeltI think that was the point of Mark's response to my first "Godfather" analogy.....
my bad. but it's nice to see
August 28, 2008 - 10:34 ET by athoughtor2my bad. but it's nice to see we all get the analogy
Was Joe being sarcastic?
August 28, 2008 - 07:14 ET by c5thenWas there any trace of sarcasm when he said that "Biden helps so much in that respect"?
If not then he's just reading his script like a good peon. I often wonder how Joe can stay with that network. I'm sure Fox would snap him up in a heartbeat were he to become available.
The day that "politician" became a career choice is the day we started losing the Republic. Let's get it back! Alan Keyes '08.
I just watched the video
August 28, 2008 - 07:38 ET by motherbeltI just watched the video again and I think he was serious.
Because the other woman said Well he helps, but I don't think he closes the deal.
And regarding the history of gun-grabbing?
August 28, 2008 - 07:18 ET by sarcasmoWell...
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
Tulsa Massacre
August 28, 2008 - 07:29 ET by Cool ArrowThe Tulsa Massacre, 1921, now heavily steeped in legend, has its own gun confiscation theme.
Again Blacks were killed because they acquiesced to Government (albeit local) "protection".
Torches & Pitchforks
what's the point ?!?
August 28, 2008 - 07:39 ET by i was just thinkingDems and MSM are constantly reminding us that Biden is the one with foreign policy experience, Biden is the one with experience of government, Biden is the one who can sit around Everyman's kitchen table and drink a cup of coffee, Biden is the one who can reassure gun-owning America...
If Biden is the one who is going to do all of this, then why is Obama even on the ticket??? We've always been told how irrelevant the VP is, and that people vote for the top of the ticket, not the VP. I must have missed the memo that said this changed with Obama/Biden. Now, the VP slot matters - or so we're told.
The bottom line is that no matter what happens Barack is still the one (God forbid) sitting behind the desk in the Oval Office. He is the one who will have to deal with these issues. To follow the "3:00 a.m. phone call" scenario, is Obama going to put the caller on hold while he goes and gently nudges Joe to wake and up come join him on a conference call with Angela Merkel or Gordon Brown?
or, heaven forbid,
August 28, 2008 - 07:40 ET by motherbeltor, heaven forbid, Vladimir Putin?????
wait a second...
August 28, 2008 - 09:14 ET by sawing battaJoe Biden, as foreign policy expert "stared down dictators"
I thought our country had enough of 'cowboy diplomacy'...how can the Dems lead with this tough guy stuff if we're all about 'just getting along". And where is the Press to call BS???
And how do we rationalize what Bill Clinton said last night about wanting a nation that shows "the Power of Example" not an "Example of Power". Isn't this 'stare down dictators' BS just and Example of our Power?
..and who the heck is Clinton to lead with this statement anyway? The power of his example....you have got to be kidding me!
...and Barack is older than i was when i took office [read: he has more experience than i had in 1992]. He may be older, but dude, you were a Governor..You at least had some executive experience, albeit from a small state. This guy has virtually no experience and the experience he has he voted "Present". Again, the press should attempt to be critical thinkers, but instead the accept as fact all of these statements and help these clowns rewrite history.
Clinton delivered a great speech - until you actually listen to it for truth and consistency.
right on the money with the
August 28, 2008 - 10:03 ET by athoughtor2right on the money with the call to listen to the speech.
I love when Bill said we were at peace. That's one of the problems. we might have been at peace but the terrorists were NOT. thewere plotting and killing as he was cigaring
Also, what dictator did Joe stare down? when was the last tiinme a senator could stare down a dicator and have it count?!
They are starting to
August 28, 2008 - 10:23 ET by Hunter12They are starting to cleanse the Net of Biden's quotes in support of the Iraq war. I have a quote from Biden I cached after the MSM attacked Anne Coulter over the Jersey girls where he stated he was in the loop on intelligence and everything the Bush administration had heard from the intelligence community showed the war was justified. I was curious that President Bush got reamed for believing Tenet and Clinton's other holdovers, but they gave Biden a pass. In case anyone is curious, here is what he was saying after 9/11, along with the former location:
You are going to hear from experts on terrorism. I’ve had the benefit of having them and others—the leading experts in the world—sit with me and the Intelligence Committee in rooms that are closed, that are constructed in such a way that there can be no eavesdropping—for 10 years when I was on the Intelligence Committee and, for the last 25 years, on the Foreign Relations Committee. I have what they call a STU, which is a secure phone, in my home that I can speak with—and I have—with the president and the secretary of state and the national security advising team, and George Tenet of the CIA and the FBI.
http://www.udel.edu/PR/UDaily/biden091901.html (no good anymore)
By the way, the Dims VP, picked because of his vast foreign relations and international experience, supported the war.
"An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last." - Sir Winston Churchill
Guard that well....
August 28, 2008 - 10:34 ET by motherbeltAnother quote destined for the Memory Hole....
Joe Biden, as foreign
August 28, 2008 - 10:37 ET by motherbeltJoe Biden, as foreign policy expert "stared down dictators"
I thought our country had enough of 'cowboy diplomacy'...how can the
Dems lead with this tough guy stuff if we're all about 'just getting
along". And where is the Press to call BS???
Good point!
You have to remember, when a Democrat "stares down dictators" it's OK, because they do it in a humble, non-threatening way.
This is just like military experience being important when a Democrat has it (Kerry) and unnecessary when he doesn't (Clinton).
well, not really...
August 28, 2008 - 14:21 ET by i was just thinkingdems don't actually stare down dictators, it's more like making goo-goo eyes with them
"It ain't the way I wanted
August 28, 2008 - 07:40 ET by SickofLibs"It ain't the way I wanted it! I can handle things! I'm smart! Not like everybody says... like dumb... I'm smart and I want respect!"
Joe has already seen this article.
August 28, 2008 - 07:53 ET by dronetekHe just mentioned that a "blog" was calling him out on his theory that Biuden helps with gun owners.
I also think Joe seems like he was threatened today. Hes in on the Obama/demoicrat circle jerk today as much as the other liberals on the show.
If you're concerned about
August 28, 2008 - 07:53 ET by BruzillaIf you're concerned about guns, you might want to also bear in mind John McCain's 2007 scores:
Note: McCain literature is listing McCain's NRA score as a C+, but that is a lifetime average, not the most recent score. The A grades he received earlier in his career are being used to offset the D and F grades he has received lately.
If you want to protect your guns, you better vote for Bob Barr!!!
I hope you're kidding...
August 28, 2008 - 08:03 ET by unkeeafI'll vote for McCain with my nose clamped shut, but a vote for Bob Barr is like voting for Obama. Barr has zero shot and is only going to take conservative votes that McCain needs to be elected. Trust me, I'm far more in line with Barr's politics than I am with McCain, but the guy cannot be elected and an Obama presidency with an enormous Democratic advantage in Congress is simply untenable.
Look at it this way, you can have McCain and be sure your guns won't be taken away or you can have Obama and have no guarantees. There is no credible Bob Barr as president scenario, so please don't throw a vote away that could keep Obama out of office.
MSM = PR firm for the Democrat Party
Have you even bothered to
August 28, 2008 - 08:21 ET by BruzillaHave you even bothered to check McCain's voting record on guns lately? Why do you think he got those F and F- grades? What in heaven's name makes you think our guns will be any safer with McCain in office than Obama?
I think that things will be worse with McCain. Obama will support bans, but these will never make it through Congress since the Dems had to run so many conservative candidates to win back control. I can't see McCain supporting bans, but he sure will support "moderate" gun control laws that will pass through Congress.
So you don't have a gun in
August 28, 2008 - 08:27 ET by Hunter12So you don't have a gun in your pocket. At least you'll have a little coin left. With Obama, your pockets will be empty. Take a pencil and go to his website and do a little adding. Where do you think he is going to get all that money to pay for all those promises? If he's elected, you going to find out he considered you rich.
"An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last." - Sir Winston Churchill
Loose Change
August 28, 2008 - 08:33 ET by Sergeant ROCK..With Obama, your pockets will be empty. .
Not exactly. You will have 'change'.. not much, but some.
LesserOf2evils '08
HOPE for CHANGE. So
August 28, 2008 - 08:52 ET by Hunter12HOPE for CHANGE. So that's what he's been saying.
"An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last." - Sir Winston Churchill
Correct Change
August 28, 2008 - 10:07 ET by Sergeant ROCKYes. You better HOPE for change - that may be all that's left in your pocket!
LesserOf2evils '08
Last I checked, McCain
August 28, 2008 - 09:00 ET by BruzillaLast I checked, McCain isn't opposed to raising taxes or repealling tax cuts either. He's saying he's onboard now, but this is the same guy who went to the last forum and said how life begins at conception and that he opposes abortion, then the next day starts queries to see if it's okay to pick a pro-choice VP.
I don't listen to anything McCain says... I watch what he does.
Huh-uh...
August 28, 2008 - 08:45 ET by unkeeafPlease read my post before you come at me with "have you even bothered". Yes, I know what his voting record is (C+) over the term of his career. Last I checked, that's a bit better than the (F) Obama received.
You go ahead and read the tea leaves, I'll make my decision based on the facts.
MSM = PR firm for the Democrat Party
You're trying to compare a
August 28, 2008 - 08:50 ET by BruzillaYou're trying to compare a lifetime average with a one year average, and that's not being honest. McCain has gotten Ds and Fs for (I believe) the last seven years. If it were not for the As and Bs he got years ago, he would have the same F grade as Obama.
Barr always got As.
Bruzilla...
August 28, 2008 - 08:59 ET by unkeeafI'm not arguing that McCain is a superior candidate to Barr - he's not. I'm arguing that he is the only electable candidate of the two. I'd vote for Barr all day if I thought he had a chance to win, but we all know he doesn't.
Here is a description of McCain's position on guns from a non-partisan site:
Although McCain currently holds a C rating from the NRA, his voting record on
Second Amendment issues has been relatively strong; some speculate that
his low rating may have something to do with his support for campaign
finance reform laws, which has had an impact on gun rights advocacy
groups. McCain has consistently opposed a federal ban on "assault
weapons," but irritated many gun rights groups when he supported a bill
increasing federal regulation of gun shows.
You think Obama would oppose a federal ban on "assault weapons"? I don't think so.
MSM = PR firm for the Democrat Party
Of course Obama would
August 28, 2008 - 09:08 ET by BruzillaOf course Obama would support a ban on any kind of weapon. He probably fantasizes about it. But bans are not going to be passable through the Congress as it is now. The Dems had to bring on too many folks from conservative districts to take back control, and these guys know if they support a ban they will lose their seats in a heartbeat. What these folks will support are more moderate gun control laws, which are the type of laws McCain will sign off on.
As for Barr, as long as folks like you feel he can't win, he can't win. There's absolutely nothing but the will and ethics of people like you that can stop him. If you want to hold your nose and vote for McCain, go for it. As for me, I would rather vote my ethics.
Confession Time, I was one
August 28, 2008 - 09:35 ET by Hunter12Confession Time, I was one of those "message" voters in 1992. I voted for Perot to send a message to President Bush that I didn't like his stand on several issues. My feeling was that in his second term, he would look at the vote and see there were people who were dissatisfied and modify his views. Whoops! The economic credit that Clinton can take from the '90's was that he was smart enough to get out of the way in 1994 and let it happen. We would probably never have seen 9/11 with a firmer hand on the wheel and people in charge who didn't govern with whispers on the wind and watching which way they blew.
"An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last." - Sir Winston Churchill
Are we talking about coming
August 28, 2008 - 09:16 ET by Hunter12Are we talking about coming into homes and taking Grandpa's old double-barrel off the wall or, shucks, I can't go to the gun fair behind the Winn-Dixie and buy that machine gun with the grenade launcher under the breech out of that guy's trunk? What the NRA and GOA may see as a slippery slope, I see as common sense. There are a lot of us under the conservative umbrella that can see shades of gray on gun control. When you look at McCain's "anti-gun" votes, the Gun Owners of America don't like his stance against gun shows. They specifically don't like him wanting to "outlaw the private sale of firearms at gun shows". Sorry, Bru, but I kind of think that may be a good idea. Uncle Dave may not be that careful about selling that AK-47 to the guy with the funny accent when he's willing to pay 5 times the price. If these fairs were a group of friends that have known each other for years and they're trading guns like we traded baseball cards when we were kids, then I might be okay with it. When all you need is some sophisticated printing equipment and a sample of official documents to produce a fake, I think flying into the country, or sneaking across a border, and then finding a gun fair to supply weapons you didn't bring with you makes domestic terrorism too easy. Maybe I've seen too many movies.
"An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last." - Sir Winston Churchill
I would agree that there
August 28, 2008 - 09:50 ET by BruzillaI would agree that there are some gun control laws that make sense, the problem is that the "slippery slope" that so many folks worry about needlessly is a very real situation for gun owners. In 1985, the NRA supported the FOPA that was the first time any category of firearm was banned by type. Gun owners, few of whom owned, or wanted to own, selective-fire and automatic weapons, objected but the NRA said that all that was getting banned were these relatively few firearms and semi-autos would never be banned. Then came 1994 and those supposed safe semi-autos got banned. So what's next? For gun owners the "slippery slope" is not a worry, it is a very real thing.
What also gets me is the rather cavalier attitude people have about the 2nd ammendment... but not others. People say "I don't see a need for anyone to have an Ak-47, so it's okay to ban them". Well, that's fine for them, but the Bill of Rights isn't supposed to be open to picking and choosing what applies and what doesn't. Can you imagine folks saying "I think Catholics should have freedom of religion, but not Jews." Or "I think newspapers should get freedom of the press, but not TV stations."? That would never happen, yet these same folks think there's no problem with treating the 2nd Ammendment that way.
Maybe we should be like the
August 28, 2008 - 10:42 ET by Hunter12Maybe we should be like the Swiss and everyone that's not a felon or crazy should have an M16 and a thousand rounds of ammo locked in a gun safe and one in a thousand should have an F-18 in a hidden hangar under the garage. I think the problem arises when the bleeding hearts feel sorry for the poor felon and they don't enforce the laws already in place to deal with gun crime. Being a lousy shot shouldn't save you from the chair, if you put a few rounds into someone during the commission of a crime, but don't kill them. I don't think you need an AK-47 for hunting, but if you meet the criteria for ownership, you should be able to get one. But why does it have to be as easy as a walk to the corner gun shop? I think VT and NU show that the procurement process can be too easy. We need tougher screening and we need to punish the people who fail to follow the process. As I said, I see shades of gray in the gun control laws.
"An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last." - Sir Winston Churchill
There's a much more
August 28, 2008 - 09:17 ET by Mark FinkelsteinThere's a much more important point here. McCain has pledged to appoint Supreme Court justices like Alito and Roberts--people who voted to overturn the DC gun ban. Biden would support Obama on the appointment of Ginsburgs and Breyers, who voted to deny Second Amendment rights.
Great point Mark...
August 28, 2008 - 09:42 ET by unkeeafBru, you just go ahead and vote your precious ethics - my your a giant of man. Myself and the vast majority of other sensible folks on this board will vote for McCain in an attempt to keep Obama from office.
Guys like you will be responsible for an Obama presidency if he wins. Furthermore, if you actually think Barr has a chance of winning, you need to become a little more "edumacated" on politics before you start shooting your mouth off on this board.
Here's a suggestion, go look up the word pragmatic and try to embrace it when thinking about whom to vote for. Leave the emotional vote to the liberals.
MSM = PR firm for the Democrat Party
Well, you'll be responsible
August 28, 2008 - 09:52 ET by BruzillaWell, you'll be responsible for a McCain win if he wins, and that's going to be every bit as bad, if not worse, than an Obama win.
Just by the fact that he
August 28, 2008 - 10:08 ET by athoughtor2Just by the fact that he will appoint, or attempt to appoint, justices like Roberts et al, will make his presidency better than Obama's
Hope you're right
August 28, 2008 - 10:18 ET by Sergeant ROCKMcCain afterall, did vote to confirm Ginsburg, Breyer and Souter.
LesserOf2evils '08
so do i.but that's a
August 28, 2008 - 10:42 ET by athoughtor2so do i. at least we have a chance with McCain. we have no shot with Obams
but that's a difference between Repubs and Dems. They feel the president has the right to name his justices, advise and consent. they are not our choices but we feel the pres has the right. The dems will fight tooth and nail to have the Rep president's selections voted down.
Dems tend to play politics a little better than Repubs
Chances
August 28, 2008 - 10:46 ET by Sergeant ROCKI agree. However, what I fear the most about McCain is his willingness to compromise at the drop of a hat.
If Obama has a strong point, it would be the opposite of that.
LesserOf2evils '08
Just a little reminder
August 28, 2008 - 10:00 ET by BruzillaJust a little reminder here... McCain has pledged lots of stuff this year and last year, but always keep an eye on his record. McCain was the guy who formed the Gang of 14 that prevented us from getting the conservative judges we wanted. Yes, we got some, but the big winners in that debate were Chuckie Schumer and his crowd. McCain can say he'll nominate Alitos and Roberts types, but he also pledged to not support amnesty for illegals and now he's backing down from that.
McCain has a track record of cutting deals with Dems. I'm sure if Schumer and Co. come to him and say "if you try to replace a Lib justice with an Alito, it will never get through", he's going to nominate a Lib who will get through.
A's
August 28, 2008 - 10:03 ET by cvgbuckeyeBruzilla: I get more A's than anyone on the planet so why don't you vote for me..............since I have the same odds as Barr of winning the election.
Do you want to win an argument or do you want to keep a racist, socialist, apolagist for terrorists, baby killing egotist out of the most powerful position in the world..............so that he can be a living prophecy fulfiller of Kruchev's declaration that they would take over the USA without firing a shot ?
Well said, Buckeye...
August 28, 2008 - 12:10 ET by unkeeafI have nothing to add...
MSM = PR firm for the Democrat Party
Look what Perot did for
August 28, 2008 - 08:22 ET by Hunter12Look what Perot did for Clinton. Does the term "stalking horse" mean anything? Don't waste a vote on someone who doesn't have a chance of winning. Just think, if the good people of Florida had a small percentage who wanted to send a message to President Bush, we'd be a smoldering slag heap and OBL might be running the country now.
Always remember, the MSM told about 180,000 registered Republicans in western Florida that they were wasting their time by voting as Gore had won the state before the polls in the panhandle closed. How many of those people were still heading out to vote and would have voted? How many of their chads would have hung?
"An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last." - Sir Winston Churchill
No win situation
August 28, 2008 - 08:42 ET by Sergeant ROCKConsider that the GOP is continuing it's strategy of nominating 'the lesser of two evils'. If you vote McInsane, you validate this strategy. If you don't vote or vote third party, you get somebody like Obama/Obiden.
The GOP has been setting us up for failure since 1992. McCain is just the latest example of putting party politics above principled conservatism.
It's quite the conumdrum.
LesserOf2evils '08
OK...
August 28, 2008 - 08:49 ET by unkeeafGo ahead and vote based on principal. Please check back this time next year and let us know how President Obama is working out for you.
Please, please, please.... think about what you are suggesting. This type of thinking will absolutely elect Obama with a massive majority in the Congress. That could spell the end of this nation as we know it.
You can't reasonably think McCain is that bad. He's far from perfect, but he ain't Obama.
MSM = PR firm for the Democrat Party
Like so many others, you
August 28, 2008 - 09:21 ET by BruzillaLike so many others, you are thinking in tactical terms vice strategic. Once again... there's no way for any extreme gun control measures to pass through Congress as it is now comprised. The Dems had to being on too many conservatives. So Obama can call for all the bans he wants... they'll never make it through. Even better, I think Obama would veto any moderate gun control bills rather than sign off on them and look soft on guns.
McCain won't call for any bans, but he will call for "common sense" and "moderate" gun control laws, the ones that kill us one wound at a time, and these will pass through the Congress. Barr is the only candidate who will veto any gun control measures.
Bru, "they'll never make it
August 28, 2008 - 09:32 ET by Dan The Man 2Bru, "they'll never make it through" think about this. The DC ban on handguns passed by the narrowest of margins in SCOTUS. Roe vs Wade was constructed by activist judges out of non existent cloth. Now rather than being safe, rare and legal it is not that safe and plentiful, but it is still legal and no laws have been passed to make it so.
Obama will have a Democrat congress to work with, possibly a filibuster proof majority. Many laws have been passed under such condisytions that have proved detrimental to the USA.
Your vote for Barr is a principled voote but it is a war and you are trying to win the battle at hand. But, more power to you and if we do end up with Obama remember you helped him get there.
Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark.
Remember 1994?
August 28, 2008 - 09:46 ET by Sergeant ROCKYou assume that the democRATS will maintain majorities in both houses. That certainly wasn't the case after Klinton was elected.
Your support of the 'lesser of two evils' strategy makes you just as culpable for the electing of Obama as voting for third party candidate.
LesserOf2evils '08
Pay Attention...
August 28, 2008 - 09:50 ET by unkeeafYou live in your own little world don't you? Let's make this simple for you, if you vote for Barr, you're voting for Obama. PERIOD. This argument doesn't go beyond that point for me. This is about keeping Barrack Obama out of the White House. You go ahead and play your little high and mighty political games, the rest of us will try to do what is necessary to keep that leftist from becoming President.
MSM = PR firm for the Democrat Party
Take a look at Illinois to
August 28, 2008 - 09:26 ET by Hunter12Take a look at Illinois to see how a representative system of government can be run into the ground in a very short time with one party in control of the executive and both houses of congress. The state has always been corrupt, but at least we used to run. We have a bleeding heart governor, who wants to put every family making $80,000 or less on the state insurance plan, has taxed every money-making business out of the state, and can't control his own party. Do we want to see the whole country go that same way?
"An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last." - Sir Winston Churchill
McCainiac
August 28, 2008 - 09:37 ET by Sergeant ROCKI didn't say that I was going to vote for Barr or any other third party candidate. All I'm saying is that I understand the frustration of conservatives with the GOP's 'Bob Dole' strategy of nominating a slightly-less liberal than who the democRATS nominate.
You may be content with that strategy, but I would wager that the vast majority of conservatives would agree with me. You know, the ones that put conservative principles above party politics.
If Obama wins, it will not be because of a 'Bob Barr' but rather the failed strategy of the GOP. So save your guilt trip, McCainiac.
Picking Mitt Romney for the VP slot is about the only way there will be a Republican in the Whitehouse.
LesserOf2evils '08
I'll say it again...
August 28, 2008 - 09:46 ET by unkeeafThat kind of thinking will elect Barrack Obama. I'm very conservative and find McCain very distasteful. That being said, if you want a President Obama, vote for Barr.
I don't put party above principals, I put country above principals. You should try the same Ace.
MSM = PR firm for the Democrat Party
Comprehension problem
August 28, 2008 - 09:53 ET by Sergeant ROCKAnd I'll say it again: I'M NOT VOTING FOR BARR!!!!!!
That doesn't even make sense. Without principles, what does 'country' mean?
You would vote for McCain even if the VP was Lieberman, wouldn't you?
LesserOf2evils '08
Yes...
August 28, 2008 - 12:15 ET by unkeeafBecause I'm thinking about this strategically, not emotionally. Is that the ticket I would want? Absolutely not. However, if it's the best I can get, I'm standing in line to vote for McCain/Lieberman.
Let me ask you this, if given the choice of McCain/Lieberman or Obama/Biden who would you pick? Seems pretty simple to me.
MSM = PR firm for the Democrat Party
Obama's not gaining any
August 28, 2008 - 09:23 ET by BruzillaObama's not gaining any traction, and when McCain picks a pro-choice VP (my money is on Lieberman), then you're going to see the no-win option go away. And hopefully enough people will wisen up and see that voting for McCain, when we can get Barr, is the foolish option.
Ha ha ha...
August 28, 2008 - 10:21 ET by Sergeant ROCKYou're delusional!
LesserOf2evils '08
While I have issues with
August 28, 2008 - 10:18 ET by marpelWhile I have issues with McCain, they're no more than the issues I had with Bush. They're just a little different. I am glad I voted for Bush twice. I think he's a good President. The media has been so brutal with him, no wonder the country doesn't respect him. I respect him plenty. He's kept us safe, which, by the way, is the primary task of a President.
So, you ask yourself, will you feel safer with McCain? Or with Obama? Is there even an argument about this?
McCain gets my vote, hands down.
Who out there thinks that Joe Scarborough got called on the carpet after his on air fight with crazy-eyes Shuster? And I think KO did the carpet calling...What's your opinion?
I caught a lot of this
August 28, 2008 - 10:32 ET by bigtimerI caught a lot of this early this morning...
I just wanted to add on here that they later had on Gov. Brian Shyster from Mt. where I reside...and I am getting sick of his shtick about telling people to vote for Barr if they are worried about not trusting Obama and the gun issue ect...this is how the dems have managed to gain control in our state, they use the Libertarians intentionally to gain just enough votes to win...he makes me furious...he acts so danged folksy..isn't he just precious...the msm of course is all in love with him for now.
On another note I noticed how much praise Joe gave Mike Murphy this morning since his dust-up yesterday regarding Keithie telling the crew to wrap-it up when Mike was talking about the Clintons voting for McCain behind the curtains at the polling booth...I was tickled to hear him say this more than once when he would introduce him during different segments...he was really sticking it to Keith.
I loved it!
"America isn't the problem...America is the solution." ~ Rush Limbaugh
The McCain Problem
August 28, 2008 - 10:36 ET by NBFIf you're a conservative, and you live in a state that is certain to go for Obama, it makes no sense to vote for McCain over a conservative third party candidate.
If you're in other states, it's more difficult, but I can tell you that you should never cast a vote that violates your conscience. Death is better than sin.
Death is better than sin.
August 28, 2008 - 10:41 ET by Sergeant ROCKAn astute observation. Prepare for attack!
LesserOf2evils '08
Campaign Promises
August 28, 2008 - 11:41 ET by ridge_sCampaign promises are just so much hot air. In reality, the congress has much more control over how the government is run than the president. The real power of the president is the appointment of federal judges and supreme court justices. That's why the idea of Obama being president scares me to death. The judges that BHO would appoint would do more damage to our freedoms than any foreign power.
"I don't want change, I want improvement" (stolen)