Asked by Howard Kurtz on Sunday's Reliable Sources how she felt, “as a citizen,” when “the Supreme Court stepped in and essentially made George W. Bush President?”, actress Laura Dern, who plays Katherine Harris in HBO's Recount film to premiere tonight at 9 PM EDT/PDT, replied that “as a citizen, I felt devastated because there were uncounted votes” and “I left the experience with a real disillusionment about the process.”
Dern's personal view echoing the liberal/Democratic spin on what occurred matches the take expressed Wednesday by actor Kevin Spacey, who plays Gore operative Ron Klain in the movie: “It does seem that on the one hand the Bush people were trying to stop votes from being counted and the Gore people were just trying to get votes counted.”
The exchange, in the pre-taped interview, aired Sunday morning on CNN where Dern appeared with the director of the movie, Jay Roach:
HOWARD KURTZ: Let me take you back to 2000. As a citizen, how did you feel when th Supreme Court stepped in and essentially made George W. Bush President?
LAURA DERN: As a citizen, I felt devastated because there were uncounted votes. And I feel so proud as an American to consider my country being a place where voice always heard and that is what was so devastating about this recount was that I left the experience with a real disillusionment about the process and really waited for my country to show me this remarkable turn of voter reform so that we'd never have to experience that again and I'm still waiting.
—Brent Baker is Vice President for Research and Publications at the Media Research Center





LAURA DERN: As a citizen, I felt devastated because there were uncounted votes. And I feel so proud as an American to consider my country being a place where voice always heard and that is what was so devastating about this recount was that I left the experience with a real disillusionment about the process and really waited for my country to show me this remarkable turn of voter reform so that we'd never have to experience that again and I'm still waiting.














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Comments Policy
Let's Count Until I'm Ahead. Then we Quit.
May 25, 2008 - 14:55 ET by allanfUnccounted votes? There were more tallies of votes done in Florida 2000 than any other election. The Al Gore reccount theory was simple. Let's count each and every vote until I am ahead: and then quit. Now if you have three different counts of the vote, which count is most accurate Laura?
Liberalism is all about changing the "rules" to suit your noble goal. That's why it is so very hard for Democrats to accept defeat in the 2000 Election.
At no point was hand divining of voter intent on punch card ballots part of the legislative scheme envisioned by the Florida Legislature. Bush won the original ballot count and the legally mandated machine reccount. Gore's people then tried to reshape Florida law contending that machine's working as designed, mal-functioned. Although they lost a trial with a Democrat judge the politicos on the Florida Supreme Court decided to create a new hand devining ballot counting mechanism based on their new reading of the Florida Constitution.
The Supreme Court ruled 7-2 that the reccount ordered by the Florida Supreme Court violated the equal protection clause of the constitution. That was because the reccount treated votes differently. That part wasn't even close.
The decision was 5-4 as to the remedy.
A majority of justices also quite reasonably held that the scheme to elect a President is a plenary power of the State Legislature. That meant that the Florida Supreme Court, could not cite the Florida Consitution as a ruse to change the scheme under which votes were counted. Also very reasonable. The Court felt the Legislature and Congress should ultimately resolve disputes, not the judiciary.
As a typical liberal, Gore chose the wrong venue to fight in: the courts. He should have taken his case to the Florida Legislature and the House of Representatives and challenged the electors.
The Supreme Courts decision was judicious and important. It will prevent activist courts from usurping the electoral process.
Well maybe thats bad for Democrats.
Nice post, allanf. I
May 25, 2008 - 18:55 ET by dixiechickNice post, allanf.
I would only add that Gore requested recounts in a few select counties, and not the entire state.
Had he asked that the entire state be recounted, he would have had a case.
Of course, he still would have lost.
What no one talks about
May 26, 2008 - 09:05 ET by pbthinkerHaving suvived the election of 2000, and living in PB county, I lived through this election. Knowing that Democrats ran the canvassing boards in these 3 counties, I had visions of them pulling this one out, you know finding a previously hidden group of ballots and finding a way to get them counted. Alas, it didn't happen but I always felt it was a possibility.
Katherine Harris got a bum rap, at the time, considering all she did was follow Florida Law, as to timing of recounts. I remember when she opened her office, on a Sunday, to receive the recounts from the counties, everyone complained that she could have waited until Monday. The date was Sunday and she complied with the law. Palm Beach County complained that theirs weren't reconciled yet and the Democrats tried to make it look like, had Katherine Harris waited until Monday, Palm Beach Counties records would have been there. The problem, which they don't tell you, it took them 2 more days to get it done and the ballots didn't make it until Wednesday.
Another story, that doesn't make it into the liberal stories of this time is the Broward Canvassing Board, when they started their recount, weren't getting the results they were looking for and they actually changed the rules, on what a hanging chad was, in the hopes of getting Gore more votes. It still didn't work, but it just shows the Democrats would do anything, including changing existing rules that had been in place for years, to get Gore elected.
Democrats: Stuck on Stupid since 2000.
I felt devastated because
May 25, 2008 - 15:03 ET by motherbeltI felt devastated because there were uncounted votes - Dern
the Bush people were trying to stop votes from being
counted and the Gore people were just trying to get votes counted. -Spacey
That's their story, and they're stickin' to it!
You know what, Ms. Dern? This and this is what I hope we never have to experience again!! We were expected to believe that voters made holes everywhere on the ballot without a problem, except where they were supposed to vote for President. Then they suddenly couldn't punch the card!
Also...
May 25, 2008 - 18:32 ET by Tom1969caIt was said that most of the voters who experienced this "problem" were seniors who were confused by the ballot. These, of course, are the same seniors who are in the basement at Our Lady of Perpetual Motion every Tuesday night, running 32 bingo cards at once without batting an eyelash!
It's worth reiterating, since Dern at least implied the idea of a "stolen election" (if not using those words), that Gore wanted a recount in three (3) Atlantic-side counties - Palm Beach, Broward and Miami-Dade - counties which he won by 80-20 margins. Bush's people countered with an offer to recount the whole state, which Gore summarily refused.
Now I'm no political expert, but doesn't one usually ask for a recount when the vote is close? Of course, by recounting in those three counties Gore would know that for every five ballots missed by the machine count, four of them would (statistically) be votes for him.
So, who was really trying to steal the election?
~~~
I admire FDR for not insisting on getting the approval of France and Germany before going to war.
--Anne Coulter
Tom,
May 25, 2008 - 18:42 ET by BlondeWould you kindly quit applying logic to the situation?
The dems just FEEEEEEEL they lost.
No worries from Broward County, though. I may commit hari kari if this issue is brought up just one more time. Sheesh!
It's all revisionist BS. Laura Dern, Kevin Spacey (aptly named, eh?) et. al. can just KMA!
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
B(ush)-1
May 25, 2008 - 19:26 ET by mom_roxTom: Our Lady of Perpetual Motion - lol
A government that robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul.
- George Bernard Shaw, 1944
mom_rox
May 25, 2008 - 21:30 ET by Tom1969caI wish I could claim to have come up with that myself, but credit goes to George Carlin on the Class Clown album... :)
~~~
I admire FDR for not insisting on getting the approval of France and Germany before going to war.
--Anne Coulter
And these same people could care less about
May 25, 2008 - 15:05 ET by Dee Bunkthe "uncounted" votes in Florida now or the uncounted military votes back then or the fact that when the votes were being counted partisans were "guessing" at how they voted and why or the fact that when they were counted with their biased counting ways allowed, Gore Still lost!
Can we stop the insanity, please?
May 25, 2008 - 15:07 ET by BlondeIt was bad enough the first (and second and third) time here in South Florida....but to have these liberal twits do a revisionist tale and selling it as "history" is just adding insult to injury.
Can we stop now, please?
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
They learned their
May 25, 2008 - 23:11 ET by stratmanThey learned their techniques from the Oliver Stone School Of Mockumentary.
Stone - purveyor of fine crap for years: JFK, Nixon, and the soon to be released W. (an honest biopic of George W. Bush.... riiiiiiight).
RRAM Tough!
Platoon the Movie
May 26, 2008 - 11:28 ET by ahusserAs a Viet Vet I have never figured out why "Platoon" that POS propaganda piece still gets 4 star ratings in all the guides. Of course VV's portrayed as demented killers. Directed by Comrade Stone. Still hard to believe that he was a Viet vet.
It gets 4 stars partly
May 26, 2008 - 21:19 ET by stratmanThank you for your service ahusser!
It gets 4 stars partly because it's Liberal movie critics who scored it that way. Also, after it won Oscars it was destined to forever be highly rated. Of course, it won Oscars because Liberal Hollywood voted for it to begin with. At some point the whole thing becomes circular logic.
RRAM Tough!
Thanks Stratman
May 27, 2008 - 07:54 ET by ahusserI never want the treatment of Vietnam Veterans visited upon the Veterans of the Iraq war. It was not pleasant to say the least, slinking home, being jeered when in uniform (usually at airports), more being accused of being baby killers and murderers while in college or elsewhere. Being portrayed as criminials, drug addicts, suicidal, killers on TV. I am not bitter but have never quite forgiven the American people for the poor treatment. Bias was not known about or revealed yet in the media back then. Four networks, some news radio, newspapers, hollywood and magazines were it and Cronkite was god. The bias and the antipathy for the vets was hammered into the airwaves everyday by the left, I guess the people starting believing the lies. The adage is true: "tell a lie often enough it becomes the truth". We were the original BDS. At least now the other side can get their say much to the chagrin of the old media. But the MSM still have clout. Sorry for the dithering.
I was a kid back then but I
May 27, 2008 - 10:51 ET by stratmanI was a kid back then but I remember that shameful crap on TV and in the newspaper and Life magazine. Hopefully what happened then has served as a lesson to America so that the reprehensible treatment of our military personel returning home will not happen again.
I was helping my uncle this weekend set up his computer. He was in the Pacific Theater during WWII in the Army. His grandson visited this weekend, on leave from Quantico where he is in training in the Marines. My uncle remarked that uniforms are no longer worn when off base unlike in his day where that would get you some grief. I told him I believed the practice of not requiring uniforms off base began because of the treatment of military personel during Vietnam. Your post reinforced my belief.
RRAM Tough!
I saw this tripe from
May 25, 2008 - 15:14 ET by bigtimerI saw this tripe from Dern....all pure tripe and revisionist history as the lefties continue to cry and stomp their feet because they LOST!
Simple as that...
I am so sick of seeing the promotion for this everywhere all week for something most people with a brain wouldn't want to watch in the first place...we lived it...and most of us still remember exactly what happened...except for the leftists that is...intentionally of course.
Lord I wished these critters would move on...
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill
If Mrs Dern is so concerned
May 25, 2008 - 15:19 ET by liberal_bug_zapperIf Mrs Dern is so concerned over Florida votes counting... do you think she'll scream about Florida Dems not being seated at the Dem Convention in Denver?
She won't if she's an Obama supporter.
____________________________________________________
"We can only reason from what is; we can reason on actualities, but not on possibilities." ~ Thomas Paine
lbz...good point. It is
May 25, 2008 - 15:23 ET by bigtimerlbz...good point.
It is going to be interesting to see what the outcome of the Fla. Michigan seating is by this time next week-end...
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill
Well the Democrats certainly
May 25, 2008 - 22:26 ET by Hero SquadWell the Democrats certainly don't seem worried about disenfranchising Florida voters these days.
"Hey, you came out to vote, that's great. But, a few party leaders decided to hold their primary election earlier than we liked. So... no vote for you!!!"
*****
"People only insist that a debate stop when they are afraid of what might be learned if it continues." - George Will
move on please loser dern
May 25, 2008 - 15:55 ET by lunaticcringeradiothe only uncounted votes were the military mail in votes that clinton ordered the ships not to come in so they could not be delivered. yes dummy your party kept legitimate votes uncounted while the trash was taken out just as the rules prescribed that were set prior to the election. no matter how hard you try everything went just by the rules as they were suppose to.
waaa i guilt ridden white female who didn't get their way so i'm going to whine and cry.
oh by the way does anyone know, did anyone ever do a serious attempt to pull this kreskin act on those illigitimate chads for bush, or were they only done for gore. the one thing i know, that despite all the recounts, be them government, private, or media, not one of them helped in gores favor anyway. loser dern.
by the way, thank you for verifing the fact that liberals are terribly intrenched in hollywood.
lunaticcringeradio
Lunatic, my thoughts exactly
May 25, 2008 - 16:26 ET by jefflebowskiGore and the Clintoons tried their damndest to keep the military votes from being counted. However, they all pushed to make felons eligible to vote.
These Hollywood wastes of space have gotten on my last nerve. I don't go to their movies and I don't have HBO. Haven't missed either of them!
Clinton/Gore did not press
May 25, 2008 - 19:42 ET by JerClinton/Gore did not press claims to prevent the counting of military absentee votes--including ballots which lacked postmarks or contained invalid ones.
Jer
Great Parsing, Jer
May 25, 2008 - 20:37 ET by Del DolemonteJust curious, were you a law student of Bill Clinton's, just like Susan Webber Wright?
While it may be true that neither Clinton or Gore did not press claims, that's because Clinton wasn't running in 2000.
However, it is a well known reality that one of Gore's Florida lawyers, Mark Herron, sent out a 5 page memo advocating challenging military ballots.
I'll let someone else finish the story:
"Gore’s atttempt to invalidate the votes of America’s servicemen and women was part of a strategy outlined in a memo that fell into the hands of GOP lawyers. The memo outlined the steps Gore’s lawyers were to take in challenging absentee military ballots.
One of Bush’s lawyers was a Panhandle attorney named Ed Fleming. He had been recruited to join the small army of legal experts to help stave off Gore’s attempt to reverse the election results. "There was a rumor that there was going to be concerted, organized opposition to try to keep out the military votes, and so they asked me if I would monitor the situation here in northwest Florida," Fleming told Sammon. "I knew the county attorneys around here, so I called Tom Dannheisser, who´s the county attorney in Santa Rosa County."
Dannheisser told Flemming that he had gotten his hands on a five-page memo from a Democrat lawyer dated that day that spelled out the Gore team’s shoddy game plan to disqualify military ballots. It was written by Mark Herron, a lawyer working for Gore in the postelection battle.
"Herron distributed what obviously was intended to be a confidential memo to their lawyers, to give them reasons to challenge the ballots," Fleming told Sammon. "But one of the attorneys that they hired locally to do that said, 'Well, gee, this seems good. I´ll just send it to the county attorney in advance, so he´ll know what points I´m going to make at the canvassing board meeting.´
"So he sent it to the county attorney of Santa Rosa. It was one of the dumber lawyers that had been retained by the Florida Democratic Party," Fleming said.
After having determined that the memo was a public record by virtue of having been sent to Dannheisser’s in his capacity as county attorney, Flemming carefully read what he realized was the Gore team’s "smoking gun."
The memo instructed Democrat lawyers to make "pettifogging objections” to military ballots, especially those not postmarked.
"I sent the memo up to Tallahassee that afternoon, and it all started from there," Fleming recalls with a chuckle. Upon receiving the Herron memo, the Bush command center in Tallahassee faxed it to Republican lawyers in all 67 Florida counties, Sammon wrote. The military ballots were to be publicly tallied the next day by canvassing boards across the state.
The main battlegound was Duval County, home to more military families than any other county in Florida. Duval had more absentee ballots from overseas than any other county - 618 of 3,500 cast statewide. Five Gore lawyers showed up at the elections office at 9 a.m. Friday to disqualify as many of those ballots as possible.
Tom Bishop, one of the Republican lawyers, was incensed as he watched the Democrats, armed with the smoking-gun memo, blatantly go about disqualify large numbers of military ballots.
"They had their little cheat sheet they were using, and they objected on every single possible ground they could, no matter how spurious," Bishop told Sammon. "It was so bad that there was rolling of the eyes by even some of the Democrats there who were watching their lawyers work."
Before Nov. 17, the Duval supervisor of elections compared signatures on ballot envelopes against signature cards on file. He could find only two absentee ballots that could not be included because the signatures did not match.
"But now the Democrats insisted that they be allowed to compare all signatures, one by one. For seven tedious hours, they bitterly argued that signatures on more than 100 envelopes did not precisely match the signature cards - although some envelopes had been signed by sailors on rolling seas in hostile situations,” Sammon wrote.
"You could clearly tell it was the same person´s signature, but they would object because it didn´t have a certain curlicue or didn´t have a certain twist or it was smaller," Bishop told him.
The Democrat lawyers sought to disqualify military ballots that had no overseas postmark on the grounds that some voters might have marked their ballots a day or two after the election and then mailed them in.
"But the Gore lawyers took this argument to absurd lengths by actually disqualifying ballots received before Nov. 7. One belonged to a sailor named John Russell, whose vote was unceremoniously thrown out.”
"Our goal was to challenge every vote that didn´t appear legitimate," says Mike Langton, Gore campaign chairman for northeast Florida.
By 7 p.m., the Democrats protested against 147 absentee ballots. The canvassing board agreed to hear formal arguments from the Gore and Bush camps.
A full 19 hours after it began, the nightmarish battle over Duval´s military ballots came to an end. When the canvassing board announced that the ballots of 149 soldiers, sailors and airmen had been disqualified, a pair of jubilant Gore lawyers actually exchanged high-fives for their victory against America’s service personnel.
"A Republican, visibly shaken by this sight, demanded to know how they could celebrate the disenfranchisement of U.S. military personnel risking their lives around the world. One of the Gore lawyers glibly replied: ‘A win´s a win.’" Statewide, Gore’s henchmen had been able to disqualify 1,420 ballots statewide - or more than 40 percent of the 3,500 cast.
Want more?
"Democratic attorneys were operating under the instruction of Mark Herron, a Tallahassee lawyer retained by the Democrats the -night of the election.
Bob Sweat, the elections supervisor in Manatee County, described the scene at the canvassing board meeting that Friday. "We had some hotshot Democrat attorney from out of the state. He protested everything, it didn't matter. He almost protested-our breathing."
St. Petersburg resident Ronald Ray, a soldier in Vietnam, and one of the 151 living recipients of the Congressional Medal of Honor, decried this concerted effort. Ray, who was born Dec. 7, 1941, the day the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor, entered the Army in 1966. He received the Medal of Honor for organizing a reaction force to a Vietcong assault, directing his troops to safety, under heavy fire, while sustaining serious wounds.
Ray twice provided cover for soldiers and medics who were under assault by throwing grenades at the enemy. When an enemy grenade landed near two of his soldiers, Ray dove in front of it, using.his body to shield his men. After the grenade tore up his legs and feet, Ray was shot in his legs.
Still, he led his men to safety before allowing medics to attend to him.
In an interview with HUMAN EVENTS, Ray said that Vice President Gore "is doing everything he can to get elected right now," and that includes a systematic effort to reject military votes. "Politics is okay up to a point, but when you start not counting military overseas votes, that's when you step in my court. and that's where I will definitely come down hard against it."
Ray watched the absentee ballot. canvassing in Manatee County, where, he said, Democratic attorneys "were fighting every one of those ballots." He said that a number of the ballots were postmarked from Hampton Roads, Va. "Now everyone with one eye and half a brain knows, those are votes that come off a ship."
Want more?
"Herron's memo included the various grounds for rejecting overseas ballots, but did not cite,,a conflicting federal law. Rep. Steve Buyer (R.-- Ind.) a Vietnam veteran who is chairman of the Military Personnel Subcommittee of the House Armed Services Committee, has sent out a "Dear Colleagues" letter suggesting that Florida might be disenfranchising overseas and military voters in violation of federal law.
In an interview with HUMAN EVENTS, Buyer said that Herron's memo misrepresented the law and "confused the boards with regard to the law." Buyer argued that the 1965 Voting Rights Act subordinated state election law to federal laws, and that the 1986 Uniformed and Overseas Citizens Absentee Voting Act (UOCAVA) eliminates the requirement for an overseas postmark.
Federal law does not require a postmark for military mail and specifies that no postage is needed for military absentee ballots. Accordingly, much military mail does not receive a postmark until it reaches the United States, and some is never postmarked at all. Buyer argues that a strict interpretation of the relevant laws would require counties to accept military ballots with domestic or missing postmarks.
Gore surrogates originally claimed that Herron was an independent lawyer. The St. Petersburg Times, however, reported on November 17, that the DNC called Herron to hire him at 4 a.m. Wednesday, November 8.
Herron's former law firm-Akermann, Senterfitt-- officially holds that Herron resigned on November 7, and the forwarding number they gave HUMAN EVENTS was a Democratic headquarters in Florida. A Democratic spokesman confirmed that "the Democratic Party has retained Mark Herron."
Want more?
"Democrats nonetheless foreswore Herron's efforts, and Sen. Joe Lieberman said on Sunday, November 19: "Vice President Gore and I would never authorize and not tolerate a strategy that was aimed at disqualifying military ballots. In fact, we think that the ballots, both the absentee ballots and the ones that are being hand counted in the three counties in South Florida now, deserve the benefit of the doubt. The whole idea here is to let the people express their will when they vote."
Buyer and former Sen. Bob Dole challenged Lieberman and Gore to act on their words and to encourage the canvassing boards to accept many of the disputed ballots. Ray says that, instead, Democratic lawyers continued to challenge absentee ballots all day Sunday in Manatee County."
Del... While it may be
May 25, 2008 - 22:29 ET by JerDel...
While it may be true that neither Clinton or Gore did not press claims, that's because Clinton wasn't running in 2000.
The only reason I mentioned Clinton was due to the two posts above mine [to which you responded] that included Clinton and 'Clintoons' as part of the conspiracy to suppress the military vote.
I am familiar with the Herron memo. Both sides were quick to address the strict requirements regarding absentee ballots and demand adherence to those requirements in determining validity. And, it is true that Herron anticipated contesting ballots that were received after Election Day--no doubt cognizant of the liklihood that military votes would be predominantly cast for Bush.
But, for several reasons, including and especially because Gore was being hammered by the media in what had become a public relations nightmare, he and Lieberman backed away from that position and agreed that the military votes should be counted.
Here is an article which examines the issue in some detail. [It's partisan, but so is your source.] :)
By the way, your typing is very impressive.
Jer
Jer,
May 26, 2008 - 02:53 ET by tracheostomyI read and considered every word of Del's post. To give your side of the argument fair consideration, I clicked your link.
First, I have to say beforehand that I respect you as probably the most gentlemanly lib on the board (at least from the posts I've read). I come from a long line of "Scoop Jackson" Democrats myself, and was pretty left-leaning up until the 2000 election. Some of that continues to stick around to this day.
Additionally, as someone who now considers himself a "9/11 conservative" I feel I still have a lot to learn here. So when it comes to politics in particular, I usually just sit around and keep my mouth shut.
But that link you pasted up from Salon was 100% IN-SANE. I can't for one minute believe that our Jer, a rational human being, actually swallowed that.
Consider this. Assuming everything they say about Bush in that article is indeed true (not saying either way), the following facts remain.
1. Sources weren't named, "According to a knowledgeable Republican operative." I don't care who's side you're on. And a revelation of this size would have/should have had more sources than just this one that witnessed the same event, but the writers estimate anywhere from "a dozen to 60 or so" in on the conference call. Some conspiracy.
2. Various forms of the word "discussion" is used at least 6 times in the article! They didn't actually DO anything. What? Did you expect them not to fight back? LOL. It's lawyers people!
3 ."Whether or not Bush supporters actually carried out the suggestion of getting military personnel to vote illegally, their focus on those ballots paid off." That statement pretty much sums up the actual value of the entire article. This is nothing but a bait-and-switch piece meant to mislead the reader from an alleged attempted GOP crime ---> to mere "focus" on the ballot dispute.
Come on Jer. You're killing me here. Don't you have anything better to bring to the table? I immediately noticed this, and I'm the freakin' N00B!
One side is accused of crossing the line here. Are you really going to sit there and point fingers at the opposing side that merely scooted their toes up to the edge of it?
-PJ
"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07
trach... Thank you for
May 26, 2008 - 13:40 ET by Jertrach...
Thank you for the complimentary words. I sincerely hope your intense objections to my sourcing are not accompanied by any diminished respect for me as a "gentlemanly lib".
Now, in my defense [or, stated differently: in a desperate scramble to salvage my tattered reputation], please consider these points:
--I readily acknowledged that my linked source was "partisan" [as was Del's: a member of the Bush Florida legal team who referred to the Gore operatives as "henchmen"]
--Jake Tapper--who authored the linked book excerpt-- is certainly no radical leftist. In fact, he has been the target of attacks from the left for being excessively sympathetic to Republicans. You will note that Tapper accused both sides of unsavory behavior during the Florida recount debacle.
--More important, it was never my intention to endorse the thesis that Republicans engaged in--or ever considered--any nefarious and fraudulent scheme to produce palpably illegal [but countable] military votes. I did intend to provide a summarization and chronology of events bearing directly on the absentee ballot issue. I believed Tapper's excerpt did so.
--Finally, I was responding to allegations of the sort that Clinton ordered ships to remain at sea so that military ballots couldn't be delivered, and that f*cking Gore prevented the counting of thousands of military votes for Bush. My position is that whatever may have been the initial strategy--which was undoubtedly to find votes for Gore and get him ahead in the count [including the disqualification of "invalid" absentee ballots]--overwhelmingly adverse publicity prompted a backing off of any serious and sustained effort to contest military votes.
Jer
Jer,
May 26, 2008 - 17:16 ET by tracheostomyYou got me Jer. As I implied before, this one's over my head.
The majority of your last post I'll have to concede, due to my previous admissions of ignorance about the details of the event. In fact, I had my head in the sand for most of the recount. Politically, I was in a state of cognitive dissonance at the time.
However, I do need to point out the following. . .
Jer: More important, it was never my intention to endorse the
thesis that Republicans engaged in--or ever considered--any nefarious
and fraudulent scheme to produce palpably illegal [but countable]
military votes.
The problem here, is that despite whatever intent you had, you in fact did post a link floating the thesis that Republicans may have engaged in--or at least considered--a nefarious
and fraudulent scheme to produce palpably illegal [but countable]
military votes.
I concede that you tried to wash your hands of the matter above, but as everyone here can clearly see. . .they're still awful dirty, your better intent notwithstanding.
-PJ
"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07
trach...
May 26, 2008 - 20:21 ET by JerIn other words, by embracing a part, I have adopted the whole? [There must be an applicable phrase for this. Latin scholars? Help me out, trach. All I can come up with is..."So, I can't just take one slice without having the entire pie thrown in my face?"]
Anyway, check you later. I have to go wash my hands again.
Jer
Jer: All I can come up
May 26, 2008 - 23:48 ET by tracheostomyJer: Help me out, trach. All I can come up with is..."So, I can't just take one slice without having the entire pie thrown in my face?"
If I could turn the clock back, I would first ask you to specify the one slice that you wished to point out in such an (inflammatory) article, as well as the rest that you rejected.
From my POV, the particulars didn't fit the overall accusation at all. On the whole, it's just plain dishonest writing. I'll remember that writer's name and take him with a grain of salt in the future.
-PJ
"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07
Del... Beautiful,
May 25, 2008 - 22:51 ET by bigtimerDel...
Beautiful, explicit work.
Thank you is all I can say for those of who remember well watching day after day about all of this outrage.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill
Clinton ordered ships to remain at sea?
May 25, 2008 - 19:32 ET by Jerthe only uncounted votes were the military mail in votes that clinton ordered the ships not to come in so they could not be delivered...\
Well, I thought I had heard all of the stories concerning political skullduggery in connection with the Florida 2000 election drama, but this is a new one. Where can I read more about it?
Jer
Gore's non-vote "votes"
May 25, 2008 - 16:06 ET by nkviking75A lot of the "votes" counted for Gore were ballots that would not have counted had the legislature's guidelines (read "THE LAW") been followed, plus ballots whose chads were modified by all of the handling from multiple counting. Harris was demonized for pushing to have the LAW followed in Florida.
When you put the clowns in charge, don't be surprised when a circus breaks out.
What did she just say?
May 25, 2008 - 16:19 ET by jay_1975“as a citizen, I felt devastated because there were uncounted votes”
Correct me if I am wrong here but... Didn't Gore try to block overseas absentee votes since they were primarily military votes and was pretty much a given that they would be for Bush? I have to stop before I start swearing here. F*ck Gore!
Both sides initially issued
May 25, 2008 - 17:57 ET by JerBoth sides initially issued statements regarding the strict requirements of Florida's absentee voting provisions. [The Republicans feared a large influx of Gore-Lieberman votes from Israel.]
However, the Bush team scored a public relations coup by claiming the Democrats--having pointed out the same rules outlined by Republicans--were attempting to disenfranchise the military. Consequently, Gore did not press challenges to military absentee ballots.
Jer
Betcha Laura Dern gets an
May 25, 2008 - 16:28 ET by zhombreBetcha Laura Dern gets an Emmy or some such award for her portrayal of Katharine Harris. The industry likes to award attractive actresses like Dern who make themselves ugly, like Charlize Theron for playing that Florida serial murderer. Dern as Harris is along the same lines: a nice looking blond playing a monster. Added points for political correctness too.
Nevermind Dern...the whole
May 25, 2008 - 17:16 ET by motherbeltNevermind Dern...the whole movie will probably clean up!
They just love to reward junk like that...because, you know, it's so brave for them to even make it... because they will be reviled for it...
<sarc>
I don't know Bruce Dern's
May 25, 2008 - 16:59 ET by badger.I don't know Bruce Dern's take on politics, probably right in line with this girl I suspect. Daughter Laura definitely has father's crazy look about her.
Bruce Dern reminds me of Donald Sutherland, just crazy looking, both whacked out of their minds. (Looney Tunes) Like most of their movies. Maybe too many drugs back in the 1960's. Although no fault of her own, this might explain Laura. If not the case, then maybe as the old saying goes, about the fruit or should I say nut falling from the tree.
Bruce
May 25, 2008 - 19:43 ET by Del DolemonteHe's a Dem thru and thru-his godparents were Eleanor Roosevelt and Adlai Stevenson.
Wah, wah, wahhhhh
May 25, 2008 - 17:14 ET by Indiana JoeDon't these people ever get embarrassed at regurgitating these liberal fantasies? A count done under the auspices of the NY Times, the WaPo, and several other liberal MSM outlets showed that Bush won the state of Florida by 493 votes, under the rules established by the Florida Supreme Court.
Now shut up and act!
Please God!
May 25, 2008 - 17:17 ET by AgentAmericanForgive me for saying this but...
when does the next Civil War start? Huck Follywood!
Drill ANWAR
Uncounted Votes
May 25, 2008 - 17:25 ET by ScrapironThere were thousands of uncounted votes in Fl. Those sent in by members of the military serving overseas that voted for 'Bush'. But then everyone counts that as a normal action of the democrat party.
I seem to remember several 'independant recounts' by the Lame Stream Media (about $10 million wasted) and one by Je$$ie, show me the money, Jack$on's and his lively bunch of criminals, along with several more and they all had the same result, the more times you counted them the worse the loss was for Algorabge. The dhimmi's are rewriting history faster than history happens.
Poor people have voted for democrats for 50 years and they're still poor. (Charles Barkley)
I'll add, we are all still poor or poorer except the democrat politicians and hacks who are now the richest people in history serving (ripping off) the taxpayers.
Old, Retired and glad of it.
Why does the left get to do all the propaganda movies?
May 25, 2008 - 17:54 ET by Daniel BakerWheres ours?
http://www.ornery.org/
Do The Path to 9/11 and The
May 25, 2008 - 18:04 ET by JerDo The Path to 9/11 and The Clinton Chronicles count?
Jer
How timely that HBO is
May 25, 2008 - 18:21 ET by jdhawkHow timely that HBO is producing this movie. It is just in time for the attempted theft of yet another electoral process. This time the dimocrats are disenfranchising two states, Florida and Michigan by attempting to not count the primary votes in these states.
Three words that defeatocrats only play lip service to, "count every vote."
There sure were uncounted
May 25, 2008 - 19:20 ET by NL207There sure were uncounted votes. Most of them, thousands in fact, were the absentee ballots of US Service members, a group that traditionally votes 2:1 Republican. Of course, in THIS, election, Laura Dern is just certain these voters were going to overwhelmingly support Al Gore, otherwise the whole discussion is pointless. Bush won. Even the dead people in Chicago and Philadelphis were not enough to put Gore over the top.
That the Dems can't let go of this is great for our team. What is not so great is that the Dems and their allies in the Jurassic media have the power to re-write this history in a way which is both false and suits their purposes.
NL207...I'm not one of
May 25, 2008 - 19:53 ET by JerNL207...I'm not one of those Democrats clinging to some "stolen election" fable. But, for the record, if there were "thousands" of uncounted, predominantly Bush, military absentee ballots, it was due to the Supreme Court stopping the recount and effectively declaring Bush the victor, rather than any efforts of Gore/Lieberman to prevent their tabulation.
Jer
I'm not one of those either
May 25, 2008 - 20:07 ET by LTKI'm not one of those either. BUT, didn't the US Supreme Court get involved AFTER the Florida State Supreme Court attempted to change the rules in favor of Gore, after the votes were counted twice?... Yes!
Jer... I remember full
May 25, 2008 - 20:08 ET by bigtimerJer...
I remember full well the stop to the military vote well before any courts became fully involved.
If you cannot figure out why the stop and delay was put into place by the Gore team then you are simply ignoring reality when it came to the votes...it would of been over with then and there with the military votes and everyone knows it.
The Supreme Court followed the law, quit saying you are not one of those who believe in the stolen election fable when you have been posting below others trying your best to start an argument defending the opposite.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill
bigtimer
May 25, 2008 - 20:29 ET bywe must remember that there are many people trained in the 'Clinton triangulation scheme' which allows for being on boths sides of every issue.
Support our Troops
In other words, botg, if
May 25, 2008 - 20:54 ET by JerIn other words, botg, if I, a Democrat, accept the consequences of an event which inured to the benefit of Republicans, yet point out a fallacy in certain perceptions expressed in connection with that event, then I am straddling or triangulating the issue?
That's absurd.
Jer
jer
May 25, 2008 - 20:59 ET bywhat? where did i say anything about you? unless you are admitting being on both sides? ;^ )
Support our Troops
Well, botg...it's just that
May 25, 2008 - 21:07 ET by JerWell, botg...it's just that I can't help but notice you've been riding shotgun for Dee and bigtimer lately. But, I'm very sorry for jumping to conclusions. So, to whom were you referring?
Jer
me?
May 25, 2008 - 21:12 ET byi haven't been here all that much lately.
Support our Troops
Jer... No fallacies, no
May 25, 2008 - 21:01 ET by bigtimerJer...
No fallacies, no perceptions here...quit attempting to make some a the left do so well.
Typical leftist..when you are wrong, make excuses with any way possible...
Why don't you guys try the facts, it is called the TRUTH!
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill
Right on BT! Good job debunking Jer and Bruce Rocks!
May 26, 2008 - 08:31 ET by Dee BunkDid you notice how Jer complains about Bruce because he's sided with us a couple times. He hasn't even necessarily sided with us but has given us support and Jer thinks that is something to be ashamed of and sees it as odd.
How dare conservatives agree with conservatives on this site! Only liberals are allowed to gang up and scold people here.
Who is Bruce?
May 26, 2008 - 11:16 ET by JerWho is Bruce?
Jer
jer
May 26, 2008 - 11:29 ET byNo Poofdas
where you been?
bigtimer...So, now you're a
May 25, 2008 - 20:33 ET by Jerbigtimer...So, now you're a mind reader. Not a very talented one, however. I have only contested the notion that Gore--or Clinton and Gore--"did their damndest" to prevent the military absentee votes from being counted. Do some homework and then get back to me.
Jer
I Just Did It
May 25, 2008 - 20:42 ET by Del Dolemonte"Get Back to Me" LOL
Jer... I have followed
May 25, 2008 - 20:47 ET by bigtimerJer...
I have followed and read your posts here today on this matter alone...I don't need to be a mind-reader in this case.
I know what you have said, I know what you are implying.
It is real simple Jer, the military votes would of put an complete end to sniveling Gore and his leftist followers with this phony baloney fiasco that was an embarrassment for this country caused by the losers..nobody would of ever had to gone through endless days of ballot counting and court scenes.
All of this was done purposely...and I know you seem to be smart enough to know that.
Actually, just an honest memory would suffice, this wasn't all that long ago now was it?
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill
BT
May 25, 2008 - 21:03 ET bybut IIRC the ballots were never cast therefore could not be counted. the whole deal was done in the delivery of them to the servicemembers very sneaky.
Support our Troops
More like it was because
May 25, 2008 - 22:13 ET by NL207More like it was because local Democratic Elections supervisors, acting under orders from the Gore campaign, challenged absentee ballots mailed from APO addresses for invalid postmarks because they knew the military post system does not apply a postmark until the mail reaches stateside APO from foreign station, if at all and because they knew such ballots would be heavily Republican based on previous experience.
The absentee ballots were eliminated because THEIR VALIDITY WAS CHALLENGED BY DEMOCRAT ELECTION OFFICIALS. This happened BEFORE the courts became involved. Serve your pablum to someone else. I am not buying it.
As a citizen, I felt
May 25, 2008 - 20:03 ET by fitzfongAs a citizen, I felt devastated because there were uncounted votes.
As a resident of California, she must have been devastated that her vote in Florida didn't count. Just a theory.
"Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it." -Ronald Reagan
Dern It!
May 26, 2008 - 10:22 ET by Dr_LibertyI would like to put in my nomination for the Atlantic's fourth named tropical strorm -- Hurricane Dern.
Then she really can blow in like a big windbag and devestate Florida - literally!
<insert witty signature here>
“as a citizen, I felt
May 26, 2008 - 10:31 ET by misterbee241“as a citizen, I felt devastated because there were uncounted votes”
Me too, Laura. Especially since Gore and his gang threw out the absentee military ballots and refused to count them.
Hollywood sucks.
There is none so blind as they that won’t see. Jonathan Swift 1667-1745